DOCTOR John Crippen must have been seeing too many patients as of late and is cranky, tired or a little of both as he goes off and offends UK dentists and the profession of dentistry in his latest post: It’s Official: Dentists Are Not Doctors.
It was well over ten years since the General Dental Council decided to allow its members to use the title “doctor”. This followed a long campaign by “Dr” Douglas Pike, who drills teeth somewhere in Suffolk:
Dr Douglas Pike – the General Dental Council’s decision to permit use of the title is effective immediately – said that his sole aim was to bring Britain into “harmony” with the rest of the world. Dr Pike, who practises in Sudbury, Suffolk, said: “We are primary healthcare workers just like GPs. We prescribe drugs, take biopsies and X-rays, and our training is very similar.”
The IndependentMr Pike was of course talking bollocks. Dentists are dentists. No more. No less. They are no more doctors than the chiropractors and other practitioners of mystic alternative arts that masquerade as medicine.
Flap remembers his first dental class at the University of Southern California School of Dentistry with Dr. Clifton O. Dummett, D.D.S. welcoming us to the profession of dentistry. “Welcome Doctors.” The good professor then went on to our inaugural lecture about some of the history of dentistry and why dentists are known as doctor.
For indeed, Flap’s degree earned after four years of post baccaleureate university work at the school of dentistry is a Doctor of Dental Surgery degree (DDS).
And, American dentistry has awarded such degrees since 1840.
1840—Horace Hayden and Chapin Harris establish the world’s first dental school, the Baltimore College of Dental Surgery, and originate the Doctor of Dental Surgery (DDS) degree. (The school merges with the University of Maryland School of Dentistry in 1923).
Perhaps Dr. Crippen is reflecting on some old long held bias against the dental profession, UK dentistry is practiced barbarically or maybe he had a root canal treatment fail yesterday but with all of the major advances in dentistry from public health to implant surgery he is simply uninformed and wrong.
Actually, it is embarassing.
Technorati Tags: Dentistry, Doctor of Dental Surgery
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October 27th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Maybe they are regressing and will call them “Barbers”.
October 27th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
By “them” I mean our colleagues in the UK.
October 29th, 2008 at 6:50 am
Hi there
In the UK, the dental qualification is BDS (Bachelor of Dental Surgery). The medical qualification is MB BS, for MB ChB depending on school – i.e. Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery.
The title “Dr” for physicians in the UK is thus an honorific. But it is a useful title to convey to the the general pubic the nature of what doctors do. I don’t understand why UK dentists such an inferiority complex. Their qualification is excellent. Their training is excellent (they are not barbaric – 12 years of a socialist government may have destroyed NHS dentistry but that is not the dentist’s fault.)
The British Advertising Standards Authority has just ruled the UK dentists much not call themselves “doctor” unless they are medically trained or have a doctorate on some sort. Your qualification is Doctor of Dental Surgery, and so that’s fine. Nonetheless, if you are at a dinner party, I am sure that, when asked what you do, you say “I am a dentist” you do not say “I am a doctor” as that would be meaningless.
This is about use of English – nothing more.
Best wishes
John
Dr John Crippens last blog post..Time to drink up, please
October 29th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Thanks John for your comments.
Have you been getting the lashing from your dentist colleagues in Britain? I bet.
At the formal dinner party I say dentist and then am called doctor (surname) never dentist (surname).
The medical doctor in the USA (MD degree) at the dinner party will rarely say physician but will say doctor.
Now, where it gets confusing is with oral and maxillo-facial surgeons who have both the DDS and MD degrees.
But, Dr. John, please please do not equate us dentists with chiropractors and other practitioners of mystic alternative arts that masquerade as medicine. They are a “duck” with a different quack.
Remember our training (USA) is often shared the first few years with our physician colleagues.
Also, best wishes.
October 29th, 2008 at 7:37 am
No no no, I don’t equate dentists with all the quacktitioners; far from it. That’s not what I say in the article. It is a mark of the bogus quacktitioner that they are always trying to find a bogus way to get “Dr” onto their headed note paper.
Dentists don’t need to do this. They are not bogus.
Mind you, as I say, there is a crowning (good word in context!!) irony in the UK. As you know, British surgeons were originally barbers and were not allowed to call themselves “Dr”. When, finally, their skills were recognised, and they were admitted to the profession, they decided to continue to call themselves “Mr” to distinguish themselves from mere physicians whose only skill is to push pills at people.
Dentists rightly pride themselves on being surgeons rather than physicians and most certainly have practical skills that mere physicians do not have. So, in the UK at any rate, they should really call themselves “Mr” to maintain their surgical status. By calling themselves “Dr” they are denigrating themselves. How ironic!
John
Dr John Crippens last blog post..Time to drink up, please
October 29th, 2008 at 7:46 am
How interesting the Queen’s English makes on differences on impressions (Pun intended).
And, so right you are, especially with my experience in another colony of the Crown – South Africa. There, I was continually referred to as Mr. (surname) rather than Dr. (surname). My hosts continually were reassuring me this was a much higher reverence and demonstration of respect than any mere doctor.
Go figure.
For me, I was wondering why they ate many dried meat products that stained their teeth so badly.
Thanks for clearing this up.
Best Wishes
October 29th, 2008 at 8:24 am
But now I need some help. I am well aware of dental expertise in the USA, but cheap it is not. Even Paul Allen cannot afford it. Or maybe he goes in the NHS in the UK. How do explain this?
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2007/12/paul_allen_vs_google.php
Could you help him for a fee he could afford?
John
Dr John Crippens last blog post..Time to drink up, please
October 29th, 2008 at 11:04 am
The British humour.
I hear that private dentistry is even more expensive in the UK.
Perhaps we should all go on a holiday to Eastern Europe or Mexico?
December 15th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Dentist are doctors. They are doctors of the mouth.
January 26th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Personally, I think anyone who has to go for school for 8 or more years and go through residency training can be called a doctor, no matter their profession. Here in the U.S. you are called a doctor as long as you have received your PhD, so there are doctors of Computer Science, Psychiatry, Biology – any subject matter for which you have obtained a doctorate degree. It’s just respect to call them such. However, I doubt it will help dentist public relations to ask that patients refer to them as “Dr. Whoever”.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Dentists are using syringes and drug, so they are doctors.
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:38 pm
I had a dental implant done on my lower right molar a few years back. It was known as surgery and used novacaine and needles. It hurt a lot but I’m very glad my dental surgeon was very competent.
I’d say he was a doctor. And I HOPE to god he is because it was really painful the procedure. I still can’t believe that stuff was done to my gums (but I did get a new fake-tooth and now it’s basically a real replacement for my missing molar tooth!).
February 4th, 2009 at 10:20 am
In my opinion there’s no question about whether dentists are doctors or not……they are doctors. Wikipedia definition is: 1. A physician; a member of the medical profession; one who is trained and licensed to heal the sick. The final examination and qualification may award a doctorate in which case the post-nominal letters are MD in the US or MBBS in the UK.
2. A person who has attained a doctorate, such as a Ph.D. or Th.D. or one of many other terminal degrees conferred by a college or university.
3. A veterinarian; a member of the medical profession; one who is trained and licensed to heal the sick.
4. A nickname for a person who has special knowledge or talents to manipulate or arrange transactions.
Pretty clear that #1 applies to dentists.
March 19th, 2009 at 5:08 am
Dentists are Doctors for sure. Doctors to cure teeth.. Just like doctors for other body parts
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:29 am
According to Wikipedia “Doctor” may refer to:
Title or profession:
Doctor (title), a title accorded to someone who has received an advanced degree
Doctor of the Church, a title granted by several Christian churches
Doctor of Philosophy, an advanced academic degree
Physician (US) / GP / Specialist, a medical practitioner
“Dentist, a practitioner of dental medicine”
Veterinarian, practitioner of veterinarian medicine
Chiropractor, a practitioner of chiropractic medicine
Doctor of Nursing Practice A Nursing Doctor
Doctor of Physical Therapy
so dentists are doctors
for reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor
November 7th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Dentists have to do training and study as a doctor so therefore they are doctors and study intensly about the mouth, but they should never let it go beyond that and abuse that.
December 13th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
This is an interesting thread.
My defense of my title of doctor would include the the three hospital medical staff committees that have seen fit to give me admitting privileges. Over the years I have admitted many patients to these hospitals and worked with pediatric, anesthesiology, nursing and emergency room colleagues, all of whom address me as Doctor. We are specialists in a particular area of the body as are dermatologists, ophthalmologists and Ear, Nose and Throat doctors.
At one of these hospitals I served as chairman of peer review for both Dentistry and ENT/Maxillofacial Surgery. Interestingly, all the forms that I sign use the term physician – not Doctor. Recently, I explained to a hospital administrator that while I am a doctor, I am not a physician and asked if they would please see fit to add the term “dentist” to the page. The hospital administrator did not blink or hesitate a moment to tell me that the hospital considered all medical staff with admitting privileges “physicians”! Has anyone else with hospital privileges had this experience?
Finally, I submit that those numerous physicians who have, over the years, brought to me their children for diagnosis and, if needed, surgical treatment and who all address me as doctor amply proves that the title is warranted.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
I don’t know about you, but i’m beginning to think that Dentists ARE Doctors…. hmmmm…..