Why Vote “YES” on California Proposition 8 – Protect Traditional Marriage?
Why vote YES on California’s Proposition 8?
Maggie Gallagher has this piece in the Los Angeles Times today.
As I travel across California and the country making the case for Proposition 8, I’m often asked, “Why do you care about restoring marriage?”
It’s a good question, and not just for me. Why are so many Californians rushing to street corners to hold up “Yes on 8” signs, enduring petty vandalism, and even pettier insults, to make the case for voting yes on Proposition 8?It’s simple: Government did not create marriage. Marriage is older than the U.S. Constitution, older even than the Bible or the Koran. Marriage’s deepest roots are in human nature and human experience. Marriage, as a judge on the Connecticut Supreme Court wrote in his compelling dissent to that court’s recent ruling allowing gays to wed, is rooted “in biology, not bigotry.”
Marriage is a virtually universal human social institution with a certain recognizable shape: It is a public union, not just a private union; it’s a sexual union and not some other kind of union; it’s a union in which the rights and responsibilities of men and women toward each other — and toward the children of their union — are publicly defined and supported, not merely left up to individuals to figure out privately.
Read it all…..
By the way, it is raining here in Thousand Oaks today and as I stepped out the door to check the weather for a later in the day work-out outside, a Yes on 8 door hanger was already on my door reminding me to vote.
Flap is impressed with the Yes on 8 GOTV organization.
Technorati Tags: California Proposition 8, Gay Marriage, Yes on 8
22 Comments
jonquils
Gay marriage is nice
Hazumu Osaragi
Hi;
May I interject a real life situation. I’d like to hear your guidance on this.
My mother was given a drug to take to lessen the chance of miscarriage and promote healthy babies — that’s what the doctor told her. The drug is Diethylstilbestrol, or DES. In male fetuses, it feminizes the brains of one in five of us ‘DES sons’.
I finally came to terms with this, and realized my choice was transition or die. So, I’m now a male-to-female transsexual who’s had ‘the operation.’ I’ve changed all my legal paperwork and although I still have a male body with XY chromosomes, it has been retrofitted to approximate female anatomy, which is good because if I ever end up in an accident, there will be no ’surprise’ for the first responders.
I ‘pass’ very well, thank you. Only rarely do strangers figure out I was not born this way. Most people have to be told, by me, or, more often, by someone else who just has to ‘drop the bomb.’
All my paperwork has been changed. Legally, I’m female. But I have to find an OB/GYN who can check my prostate during my yearly pelvic exam (yearly mammograms don’t need that level of disclosure.)
So my question to you is — knowing what you know now about me, and assuming for the moment you get absolute power to label me and make determinations on where I can and can’t go —
-Do I marry a man? Or do I marry a woman?
-Which restroom and changing facility do you feel I, a male-to-female transsexual, should use when in public spaces?
-Am I immoral?
-Am I a paedophile?
-Am I tearing down western society in support of a deviant agenda?
-Am I selfish?
I eagerly await your responses;
Hazumu Osaragi
jonquils
The issue is more complicated that one might think. Both opponents and advocates for Prop 8 have used deception as a means of acquiring voters. The Yes on Prop 8 want the voters to believe that voting no will cause all kinds of chaos, such as being requred tot teach gay marriage in schols, which is not true. They also say that it will impede on the sanctity of marriage, and it may! However, we have already allowed marriage to be perfomed by non-religious courts, an ordained Elvis, or even Reverend Bozo the Clown–proving we have not been very concerned with marriage as a sanctuary or sacrament. Furthermore, we have allowed marriages to become meaningless in the sence that the phrase “Until death do us part” means absulutely nothing; some people have even invented their own vows, some of which place little importance on the marriage itself. Yes, we have been tolerant of all fo this, and have not rushed to petition the prohibition of any of these things. So why this? Perhaps none of us know how to answer it, or perhaps we cannot admit it. I for one, am also uncertain.
On the other end of the spectrum are the gays & lesbians and their supporters. They want the California people to believe that they will not have certain rights, such as being able to attend hopctial visit, receive health or insurance benefits etc. This too is a deception. They currently have the right to a California Domestic Partnership, which gives them all the rights of a married couple. This law was enacted in 1998. While it is true that the gay marriages that have recently been issued in our state also give them these rights, it is important to understand that these rights do not trsnfer over to other states, nor are they given by agencies that fall under Federal jurisdiction. Let’s assume that a married gay man’s husband works for the United States Post Office and wishes to recieve benefits, he would find that the government would not grant this request, as they do not recognize gay marriage. However, he could recieve benefits if he were to file a domestic partnership–proving that the domestic partnership grants more rights than does a gay marriage. In short, they are both the same, minus the terminology that is used. So why such a fuss about the word “marriage”? The asnwer seems to lie in sheer pettines, and not really on civil liberties. I have concluded that bothe parties are guildy of being morally wrong: one for being petty, and the other for not taking earlier action on the abuse of the sanctity of marriange. While we are at it, gays and lesbians, should consider that we are not being fair to the Mormons who truly wish to practice poligomy in a loving environment?
Here is what must happen to be completely ethical on both sides:
Yes people: go back and redo the proposition so that NOBODY can deteriorate the sanctity of marriange, including Elvis, Bozo, the Judges, your friends, divorcees, and gays.
No people: get back out there and include the poligamist base to campaign with you the next time this comes around.
Preston K. Gamble
The reason why Proposition 8 is destined to fail is because supporters of Prop 8 are building their argument on a bed of half-truths, distorted facts, and outright lies. You know that, right? You understand that, right? You realize that the TV ads and e-mail campaigns are deceptive, right? Even if Prop 8 passes, it will be an empty victory because it will not have been an issue that was won honorably. If you cheat to get to the finish line, did you really win?
I’d also like to point out that people have a right to their own opinions, but, when those opinions serve to discriminate against an entire class of people, it creates a climate–and a country–in which this happens. It’s all connected, whether you choose to believe it or not.
Aneriz
I totally agree that people are entitled to their opinions and that there are a thousand ways to angle these issues that affect a section of our population. However, changing the definition of marriage does not answer the questions of Hazumu and does not
take away the power of others to fight for rights as in a civil union.
Marriage as the foundation for a family, the basic unit of society, has always been between a man and a woman. You say that the campaign for yes on Prop 8 has been full of half truths, let me counter that the plead for marriage of the same sex is full of lies also. Many laws have been approved against discrimination and many more are in the works, the issue is equality in marriage and changing the make up of our society for a selfish social experiment. To that I say: No.
Yes on Prop 8.
prop8discussion
marriage isn’t really about sexuality–or if someone is transgender whatever. government doesn’t grant people social status or acceptance through marriage. they don’t regulate marriage because of “love” or sex. they regulate it because of any children that may result.
children deserve a mom and a dad. this is where they do best. there is not enough research to prove that same-sex couples can do what a mom and a dad can.
gender matters. biology backs up this claim.
children deserve a mom and a dad, and i’ll do everything i can to encourage this situation.
also there is a discussion going on here about gender and parenting. i’d love any stories/comments.
http://prop8discussion.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/gender-matters-children-have-a-right-to-a-mom-and-a-dad-day-7/
prop8discussions last blog post..Gender Matters: Children have a right to a mom and a dad Day 7
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Sincerelady@hotmail.com
Marriage was instituted long before Government. As someone said it’s older than Government. another said that Marriage was FIRST then Government second
.
I say that if God thought Adam would be best helped by a male, then He would’ve created another man (maybe Steve) to be his help mate, and not Eve.
I say vote YES !!!!!!!
Linda
I as an educated Mormon had to search my head and heart on the issue of Prop 8. I do belive in equality in the eyes of the law but I believe more in a religious law of marriage. I accept that marriage and hence family are eternal and take precidence over the issues of gay marriages.
Andrea
I just find the hypocrisy fascinating. As a black person, I am horribly offended by what I see going on in the name of God.
Haven’t you all heard about casting stones, first off? And didn’t Jesus say love your neighbor? I don’t think it read “love your (straight) neighbor”. Now I am not gay and will never be but I can’t watch the blatant prejudice going on and not be offended. Did you know JUST 40 years ago, a white and black person could not get married? Not to mention what black people have gone through in general.
Anyone who says that are not racist or are black should find themselves hypocritical. You cannot force someone to follow God and should not try to. 50% of STRAIGHT marraiges fail and people get married for ridiculous reasons like being KNOCKED UP at the age of 17 so don’t then pass judgement on people who are, honestly, probably better citizens than any of you.
If you were truly Christian, you would try to be inclusive rather than exclusive. Please, honestly tell me, WHAT would Jesus do?
Palad
@Andrea –
The problem with your argument is that Jesus was very specifically inclusive of people, not practices. Did Jesus hate the moneychangers he threw out of the temple? Most assuredly he did not – he was merely trying to restore some measure of respect and dignity to His Father’s house. Similarly, there is nothing racist about a group of people declaring that they find certain behaviors to be unacceptable within their society. Indeed, in a democratic community, t is the people’s responsibility to make those decisions. And unlike the race issues of the past, all affected people were given a voice and a vote this time.
Your next point is rather specious, though. Divorce and extra-marital pregnancy have no bearing on the discussion at hand. True, society would be better in better shape if those issues were addressed and resolved, but you seem to be saying ‘Having two problems means we should ignore any others’.
Throughout history, marriage has been a matter of a man and a woman coming together to create a family. In no other act do we so closely approach our divine parentage. Everything else we do in life is merely shuffling things around – rearranging things which we did not create. In a marriage, a man and a woman come together and jointly create something out of themselves which is greater than the parts. No other relationship can recreate such an act.
As to your final question, here is what Christ would do. He would no doubt weep over the sins of his people (all of them), and tell us all to go and sin no more. He would reiterate his love for children, and would encourage parents to be loving and kind in rearing them. He would also acknowledge that while law and mercy must temper each other, God’s divine law has always been that sexual intimacy is to be expressed only between a man and a woman in the holy bonds of marriage, and that no amount of love can change that law.
JAYMIE
NO CONSTITUTIONAL LAW SHOULD COME IN BETWEEN THE LAW OF GOD.
YES, TIMES ARE CHANGING.
AND CHALLENGES WE ARE FACING.
BUT NO REASON TO VOTE NO AGAINST WHATS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE
Ally
Our government isn’t a theocracy, so you can’t pull “But the Bible says…” shit. Not everyone believes what the Bible says, you idiots. There ARE such things as atheists and agnostics. Banning gay marriage is just pushing your beliefs on other people.
In the Declaration of Independence, it is clearly states that there are certain unalienable rights, which include life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If two gays want to get married and it makes them happy, who are you to deny that right?
It’s unnatural, you say? So is plastic surgery, artificial tanning, synthetic oil, and faux fur, but you don’t see a proposition to get rid of those things.
I found this on a “Vote Yes Prop 8” website:
It protects our children from being taught in public schools that “same-sex marriage†is the same as traditional marriage, and prevents other consequences to Californians who will be forced to not just be tolerant of gay lifestyles, but face mandatory compliance regardless of their personal beliefs.
Reaction: There are other ways to get married than through a religious ceremony. There could be a legal bond done. And why shouldn’t you be tolerant of gay lifestyles? They may seem odd to you, but your heterosexual lifestyles probably seem odd to them. Homosexuals have different personal beliefs have different personal beliefs than that of heterosexuals, and they put up with that.
prop8discussion’s reason: children deserve a mom and a dad
Does that mean all children of single parents need to be put in a foster home until their mom/dad gets married again?
I can’t believe the narrow-mindedness of some people with this issue. Correct me if I’m mistaken, but wasn’t God this awesome dude who loved all people? So if you’re supposedly His “children”, why don’t you follow in his footsteps?
If you couldn’t figure it out, I would have voted “No” on Prop 8. But I’m not eighteen nor do I live in California.
To follow up, go here to see how ridiculous your reasons to vote “yes” are.
Karen
What are you scared of? Are you scared of change? Well BAM! There it is. Just because things are not “traditional” does not mean they’re not right. Was it traditional to make black people slaves? NO! But whites had to be stupid and do it anyway! What you are saying is that you say that things are traditional when they’re convenient to you, but when change is convenient to you then you make some pretty nifty arguments, huh?
It was AWESOME, and INTELLIGENT to immigrate to the Americas from England, and now you’re proud of it, even though TRADITIONAL people would have stayed in the country in which they were born, because that would be the “right” thing to do. Do you think that gay people are gonna ruin the “sacred-ness” of marrige? NO! It’ll make it even better! No, I’m not gay, but I do know that discrimination is the worst thing. Besides, not all people who get married are religious! Did you know that a huge percent of women want to get married just because they’re in it for the ring and the party? They don’t even care about the religious and sacred part of it–but wait– OH RIGHT, everything is just fine and dandy if you’re STRAIGHT!
What about all the teenagers that get pregnant because of some stupid pact or because “every one was doing it in the back of car.”? Oh, I remember, they get married! I know that mistakes happen when you’re young (my mom had my brother young) but is it not already against the bible to even have sex before marrige anyway? It’s not like patching it up with a marrige certificate will make it (in the laws of the bible) right again!
I’m not a strong religious person, but I am Catholic, and I do believe in God. Would he out people just because they were not all the same? Maybe in those truly old times, people didn’t even imagine that it was possible that you could be gay because in those times it was really marrige, children, period. There was no knowledge about being gay, and if you thought you were gay then you would probably keep it to yourself. If there had been more knowledge shed on that, Jesus would have accepted it.
VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION 8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Leah
WHY VOTE YES ON SOMETHING THAT VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION….
Flap
@15 Proposition 8 passed and changed the Constitution. Gay Marriage is not recognized in California.
Faster
Those argueing against what has passed, why are you argueing? The people have spoken. They spoke out against the ignorant judges that decide to pass this nonsense. All this pushing gay this and gay that on everyone else and making it like it’s some NORMAL behavior has just been silenced by the majority. So you’ve come out of the closet. Congrats. Now go back to your little lifestyle and be happy.
Ms. Dictionary
My arguement is simple and unbiased. It’s simply not the definition of it. We cannot change the definitions of things. If homosexuals would like to create a system similar to marriage, no one’s stopping them it would just take a very very very long time. Imagine if teenagers started saying they wanted social security. Social security is for the elderly, disabled and unemployed. Sorry that’s just what it is. Marriage: A union between a man and woman.
Ally
To Ms. Dictionary:
Yes, marriage is a union between a man an a woman. I agree with you there, but there is a system similar to marriage for homosexuals: it’s called civil union. Though it’s not accepted in all states, it still exists.
So sorry, your answer is invalid.
Brian
I think this whole issue is a waste of time. What are the aspects of marriage or a wedding ?
MARRIAGE
Love each other
Commit solely to the person
Live together
Share resources
Share household chores & expenses
Be each other’s beneficiary
Have children (of course this means adoption — single people can adopt)
WEDDING
A ceremony with family and friends celebrating the union
There is no law which can stop the above from happening. If you can’t do the above without a piece of paper, then you can’t do it with a piece of paper.
Lawrence
I Voted YES on Prop 8.
The reason why I voted yes on Prop 8 isn’t because I hate or dislike Homosexuals. Or anything like that (Which all of you Homosexuals seem to believe)
The Reason why I voted for Prop 8 is simple, people are questioning what marriage is. Marriage is an contract between a man and a woman, who have children, possibly commit solely to each other, possibly love each other, etc. That is what it is and what it has been and what it WILL BE. (Why are you questioning marriage…? Are you completely blind to history, etc..? You may think I’m ignorant, blah blah blah.. but think about it. 10-20 years ago, How many people do you know has or was involved in a Gay Marriage? Answer would be a few to none.)
There has to be a line you can’t cross. I support Gays and Lesbians. They are people, who are free to practice whatever they want. If they love some1, they can have a relationship. But NO Marriage. Again there has to be a line drawn. If they are gay marriages, but will there be next? Animal and people marriages. Someone wants to get married to a tree? (There are Crazy people out there in the world, and you may think this sounds absurd.. but you should think again.)
Thus I voted yes on prop 8.
Please don’t hate me… I’m only setting a standard/drawing a line.
If the Prop 8 banned any kind of Homosexual relations/relationships then I would have voted no on it.
Eleine Moreno
When it comes to marriage, no one is allowed to stop the decisions that every people will be making. Some people agree with the proposition but some are not.