Shocker: Democrat Jack O’Connell California Superintendent of Schools Supports Gay Marriage
Flap knows California superintendent of Schools Jack O’Connell well. Jack taught in the Conejo Valley Unified School District for about two years before he became a left-wing Democrat career politician in the 1980’s. Today, a televison ad supporting gay marriage is released featuring Jack.
But, you see Jack O’Connell wants to run for California Governor in 2010 and needs the support of the homosexual lobby to beat San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom and Attorney General Jerry Brown in a crowded Democrat primary election.
ProtectMarriage.com – Yes on 8 General Counsel Andrew P. Pugno has sent the following letter to the California State Board of Education and Superintendent Jack O’Connell:
Ah Jack, Flap knows you really don’t believe in this gay marriage crap but you will do what you have to do to get elected when you are facing being termed out of office.
But, please, stop the lying and deception. You are better than this.
Technorati Tags: Gay Marriage, Jack O’Connell
41 Comments
Acakadut
what the #$@$?
superintendent of schools … acting like this? shame on you jack 😐
Acakaduts last blog post..eye of pine
Kate Carter
I was so happy to see Jack O’Connell speaking out against Prop 8. What a courageous man of integrity. As the heterosexual mother of 3 grown children, all straight for what that’s worth, I am relieved to see a political person who is standing up to the misguided. Why we would legislate against people loving each other I will never understand. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the definition of marriage or our schools. For shame!
Flap
Haha Jack O’Connell is a nice enough person for a career politician whose claim to fame was setting up a card table and talking to voters in Oxnard. Yeah, I remember.
All Jack is doing is sucking up (no pun intended) to the homosexual lobby to curry favor when he runs for Governor beginning in January.
Guess you didn’t understand the letter printed above on how O’Connell lied about marriage being taught in our schools.
Heard Junk
Gay marriage is not about people loving each other. Its about mentally disturbed, obsessive harassers, attempting to force acceptance of their extroverted lifestyle down others throats, and vindictively punishing heterosexuals for being different. The gay lobby forced their way into public education in the other states that approved gay marriage. The same exact thing will happen here. Why on earth wouldn’t it? These harassers won’t be happy until they obtain compulsory gay sex practicums in school to force students into proving they embrace gay sex, under threat of expulsion or imprisonment. Think not? Well at least they can dream about the future can’t they ???
J Carol McManus
It is shameful that our schools in California would flagrantly taunt the ethics that homosexual marriage is an option. I am very upset. Surely the Supt. of California schools has gone WAY WAY out of the mainstream of most California citizens
pj gildernew
In response to Ms Carter (#2) I’m sorry to disappoint you but homosexuals have secured in the past, present, and future the ability to be a couple in California. In fact under California state law (Domestic Partnership Laws) AB 205 (enacted in 2005)…” registered domestic partners are now entitled to the same legal treatment as spouses in most areas of state law…”don’t believe me copy and paste this in your web browser and check it for yourself! http://www.nolo.com/support/detail.cfm/ObjectID/5F8413D8-61FC-417A-B2F09CDC406ABB2F SO I GUESS IT’S NOT ABOUT RIGHTS, IS IT??!! See if you can follow the info below for the SAKE of your 3 “straight” children.
As a public school teacher in the great state of California and someone who understands basic sociology I support Prop 8 not because I hate homosexuals but there are several points of interest that seem to be overlooked and it will effect ALL California’s and eventually ALL Americans as it has in all 9 countries that have legalized same sex marriages around the world. First for those who keep clamoring they need the right to marry, ONLY several hundred (not thousands) of same sex couples have been wed since its (same sex marriage in CA) legalization in June of 2008. That seems to stick with the 2% rate of same sex couples getting married in the other 9 nations. Not only does same sex couples not get married but also there is a huge decline in heterosexual couples. This leads to a 48% increase in the number of children born out of wedlock. If you look at social indicators of those who are incarcerated, poorly educated, and drug/alcohol addictions, the number 1 factor across the board were people who came from broken homes (male and female parents not married). Some would continue to say, so what! Well, let’s connect the dots…high incarceration rates; higher taxes to care of them, lower educational achievement, poorer job choices and eventually forces higher minimum wages due to majority of population to support themselves and increase of entitlement programs (higher taxes again), higher drug/alcohol abuse, more crime to pay for addictions and poor work habits (see Russia and their alcoholism problem with their workforce) and health care costs will rise as well with all of the people suffering from addictions or their side effects. In the end taxes have increased in the 9 countries to above 65% of the average workers income to support the results of the destruction of the “traditional family”. Those 9 countries now regret what they have done to destroy their countries. I love my country too much to allow a small amount of the population estimated at 4%(gay & lesbian) to determine the fate of The United States of America. There is ssome great information on prop 8 and its arguments on the following website please visit it to become more informed in some of the arguments for yes on 8.
http://www.yeson8.info
If you don’t agree with my assertions look them up yourself, you’ll see they are supported with data.
After doing more research on Mr O’Connell’s assertions, he must have missed the above info but seveeral news stories that as a parent of 4 children myself am extremely concerned with and will remove my kids from public school if yes on 8 fails. ( Oh by the way, for all those who think Barack Hussein Obama is public education’s savior, why does he send his 2 precious daughter’s to private institutions if he is a true believer in public education?? Just something to ponder…Oh I forgot that would be racist of me to even think of a reason why Obama isn’t fit to be our leader) I digressed, did you recently see the news story out of San Fransicko where students were taken on a “field trip” to view a same sex marriage. I thought public schools don’t teach about marriage??!? Well some much for that one. How about in Mass., you know the state that started this trend of Judges making their own laws instead of interpreting laws as their duties are spelled out in the Constitution. A father who was distraught over the fact his 2nd grade child was being taught same sex marriage was equal and normal like heterosexual marriage. (we know that is a flat out lie, due to biological reasons) He goes to the school and requests he (the dad) be notified when information regarding homosexuals and homosexual marriage will be taught in order for him to opt out his child as it interferes with his religious beliefs. Principal says no, dad says I’m not leaving until you assure me you’ll call me so I can get my child, principal says he doesn’t have to as gay marriage is recognized by the state as normal and therefore there is nothing to alert you to. The father is then arrested because he won’t leave until the principal will guarantee that phone call. When this incident went to court the father lost because the court reiterated, there is nothing to notify you (the father)) about since same sex and homosexuality in Mass is lawful and recognized as normal.
Now I don’t know about you but I don’t think that the State of California is a better parent than i am for my own kids, do you??!?
Gentleman Jim
As a new resident of California (having moved from Virginia 3 months ago) I must admit the rumors of the liberal state of affairs within California are confirmed as true and most definitely NOT rumors. I am shocked and extremely discouraged by the openly oppinionated comments of the (supposed) leaders of your Education System. The comments made by Jack O’Connell could only have been motivated by some personal agenda and I can’t imagine any political official in their right mind making such controversial AND incorrect statements. After reading Mr Gildernew’s remarks I did indeed research the law; and registered partners indeed DO have the same rights as heterosexuals. In addition, I spent some time researching Mr. O’Connell himself and discovered that he has his sights set on the California Gubernatorial race for 2010 and that of course led me here. What then is the motivation of these homosexuals but to exploit their sick and perverted lifestyle and ram it down the throats of those who clearly have the guidance of a decent moral compass. Homosexuality is a choice, nothing more and nothing less. The fact that they use pressure on politicians by harnessing the very freedom that was fought for and won by those the homosexual’s would generally despise today is, to me, another example of what these people stand for. Make no mistake, that a huge tactic is to present their cause as one that is based in love and commitment and to plead to the sensativity of all. The truth is, they KNOW that in order to gain acceptance with the general populous, and perpetuate their agenda, they must use the indoctrination of our children to “accept” the lifestyle and therefore build a uncontested future generation of sympathizers. Which brings us the the support against proposition 8 by Mr. O’Connell, School teachers in California and of course lets not forget Apple (yep they contributed too… amazing how you can always follow the money). I am proud to say that ay least in Virginia, we still have the decency to stand up for what we believe based on our moral conviction and content of charactor. And for those of you who say to me personally ‘why don’t I go back to Virginia? Trust me, when my job contract is up I’m considering taking the fastest method I can find…………..sparing no expense>
Mike
As a teacher in California, we are not required to instruct lessons regarding marriage. Using a sex education clause approved previously by parents in California is a weak case for stating that we teach the concept of marriage. What we do teach children is that everyone of them is equal. Utah is not too far away from California and there is plenty of room for hate in this part of the country.
Larry Velasco
Good Job to all those who will vote “YES on Prop. 8” Those who say we are misguided were never guided. The prop. does not only go against marriage between two of the same sex, it is to save churches from not being able to claim “non-profit organization. Nine consequences that are negative is prop. 8 fails. 1) Teachers will be requied to teach children in public schoos that traditional marriage and same-sex marriage are equal. 2) Religious adoption agencies will be forced by government agencies to give uup their righ to place children only in homes with both a mother and a father. 3) Churches willbe sued if they refuse to allow same sex-marriage ceremonies in their religious buildingsthat are open to the public. This has happened in New Jersey. 4) Ministers who preach against same-sex marriages will be sued and even imprisoned for hoate speech. This has happened in Canada. 5) Religions that sponsor private schoos which provide housing for married students will be required to provide housing for same sex couples, even if it runs counter to church doctrine or lose tax exemptions and benefits. 6) A change in the definition of marriage will bring a cascade of lawsuits. A tremendous amount of money will have to be spent by churches on legal fees as they attempt to defend their stance. 7) The lega precedent will be set for all other forms of non-traditional marriage. Examples: polygamy group marriage, marriage of a parent to an adult child, and so on. 8) Banning of the Bible. A law has recently passed in Colorado that bans the distribution of any written material that discriminates based on sexual orientation. The law includes “any communication, paper,poster folder, manuscript, book,pamphlet, writing, print, letter, notice or advertisement of any kind, nature or description which is intended or calculated to discrimimate or actually discriminates.” Legal foundations day that this law would allow a judge to ban the distribution of the Bible. and finnaly #9) Businesses will be force to provide their services to things that they are morally opposed to.
There are surely unintended consequences that we cannot forsee at this time. This is not simply an ussue about allowing people to live their lives the way they want to. This is an issue of people changing the legal definition of marriage in a way that will force us to accept and embrace the lifestyle that they choose and to teach our children that it is acceptable. Again, Prop. 8 is simply passing an ammendment to the California Constitution stating that marriage will be between a man and a woman. This is something we already voted on but was overturned by four Judges in lovely San Francisco, CA. Made me wonder if our votes really do mean anything. Very concerned, L. Velasco
Larry Velasco
TTAHK YOU, L Velasco
Karen Grube
Just a quick note: Jack O’Connell should really consider what he wants to do when his career in public service is over. I for one will campaign as hard as I can to see that he doesn’t even consider running for Governor. Of course, that leaves to other supporters of gay marriage: John Garamendi and Jerry Brown. Can’t we possibly find a candidate who won’t lie to us and has a common sense of decency? Please let me know.
karen o
liar liar jack. shame on you for your hidden agenda…and for pulling teachers and schools along with you.
BeBe
This just in- the Yes on 8 campaign has challenged Jack O’Connell to a live televised debate this Saturday or Sunday. Go to protectmarriage(.)com to read about it. Let’s see if he agrees. Hmmm, my guess is he will not do it because he knows he has nothing to back up his lies and that marriage IS taught in 96% of public schools in CA. It’s sickening. I’m so motivated to vote YES on 8 and keep gay marriage out of schools.
Roxan
I am extremely disappointed by Jack O’Connell and the schools, but then again, I also hate being forced to pay for illegal aliens and their Comidas Gratis and the Dream Act. I wish this would stop immediately. It seems the school system has absolutely NO concept of right and wrong and will proudly cram that down all our throats! I myself will never, never vote to approve a school bond unless they truly the Illegal alien issue.
Furthermore, the school system should (regarding illegal aliens) BIll the nation of origin for services and rendered and for every child who speaks no English (bill every parent) of these non-English-speaking children. Why should we legal citizen taxpayers be expected to cough up all the money for this. Let the parents/guardians/custodians foot the bill for once.
Roxan
Oops, that should be: truly “address” the Illegal alien issue. Sorry about the disajointedness. I have a migraine and apparently it shows (even when writing).
Aok
I’m confused as to how so many of you on this board can be so blinded by ignorance?? Unfortunately, you’ve fallen victim to puppet status by not doing a little thing called…critical thinking. Pugno’s own letter acknowledges that laws that even touch on marriage and classroom are….VOLUNTARY…which means that schools are NOT required to touch on the subject of marriage. Crack open a Webster’s Dictionary if you need to re-educated yourself on the meaning of “voluntary”. Whether its 96% or 9.6% or .096% of schools that voluntarily broach the topic….there is still NO legal mandate for them to do so. If you don’t like that…go to your LOCAL school board….That’s why we have this wonderful system of local school districts and county boards of education…so that each community has a voice in what is taught in that particular community. Yes, I’m fair minded enough to even give you solid advice on how to intelligently and appropriately picket with your bigoted views! Moreover, understand how to critically decipher the law. The ED code also says that schools that decide to offer comprehensive health education classes must teach “respect for marriage and committed relationships”… For all those spewing at the mouth that naked lesbians and gay men are gonna start jumping out of pop-up books for children….take a moment and think about what the phrase “respect for marriage and committed relationships” means. It means teaching students that partnership is desirable, multiple sex partners probably isn’t wise, adultery is wrong, etc. It isn’t a road map to Homoville. It’s teaching some of the basic sociological principles of this country. Face the reality that you can’t wipe gay and lesbian persons off the face of the earth. We are people, parents, and citizens just like you, and, as O’Connell articulated (politically motivated or not)..using children to lie about that IS SHAMEFUL!
Aok
p.s. read Ed Code 51938: parents have the right to excuse their children from comprehensive health education. Plain and simple!
Karen Grube
A group of official recommendations were recently made by California Teachers of English to include gay, lesbian and transgender readings to English classes. And we’re not talking about literature that happens to have been written by gay authors, but literature that specifically focuses on gay relationships. So, don’t even DARE to say gay marriage and acceptance of gay relationships AREN’T going to be taught, and NOT just in Health Ed classes, but in general courses like English as well. If Prop 8 isn’t passed, the only way to opt your kids out of that kind of instruction will be to take them out of public school – that is until they change things so that any kid who wants to do the equivalent of graduating from high school (from home schooling or a private school) will have to prove he or she got taught this nonsense.
Don’t be misled. This is precisely what those who oppose Prop 8 want. It’s not just about gay marriage, but with this door wide open, its all about promoting greater acceptance of the gay lifestyle generally, What’s next? Gender-neutral birth certificates? Why should babies be forced to be boys or girls. Why not just let them choose who they want to be no matter what their biology says? Give me a break!
Robert Tisinai
If you read Pugno’s letter carefully, you’ll see that O’Connell is correct when he says that schools are not required to teach anything about marriage. Pugno’s own letter is filled with words and phrases like “not required” and “no legal requirement” and “voluntarily.”
It’s clear that Prop 8’s opponents are lying about the teaching requirement. It’s rank hypocrisy to claim that moral high ground while lying. How sad.
Flap
Why wouldn’t Jack O’Connell debate the issue?
Chicken little is why….
Robert Tisinai
California Education Code 51240:
* If any part of a school’s instruction in health conflicts with the religious training and beliefs of a parent or guardian of a pupil, the pupil, upon written request of the parent or guardian, shall be excused from the part of the instruction that conflicts with the religious training and beliefs.
* For purposes of this section, “religious training and beliefs” includes personal moral convictions.
Google it if you don’t believe me. Or even if you do. Always good to think for yourself. 🙂
Flap
I thought Jack said that marriage was not being required to be taught in the schools. Re: video above.
Obviously, Jack is either disingenuous or lying.
Right?
Karen Grube
http://www.flashreport.org/commentary0b.php?showMonth=20081027&postID=2008102702572854
I’m quoting this guys entire news commentary entry because it deserves to be read by those who say they think schools won’t have to teach gay marriage.
————————————————————————
My school district will teach gay marriage and Jack O’Connell knows it!
by Mike Spence – Los Angeles County 10-27-2008 7:05 am
If Proposition 8 fails, my school district will teach gay marriage and Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O’Connell knows it!
Of course, school board members like me, some teachers, and some parents will resist this type of instruction. But like the Borg in the Star Trek Series, the law, education code, judges and pro-gay marriage groups will eventually force their “tolerant” view of gay marriage on all children in public schools.
This is how it will work in California public schools:
Education Code section 51933 makes it clear that schools that teach “comprehensive sex education” have to teach, “respect for marriage and committed relationships”. This is something no school district can get around.
It is the choice of school districts whether or not they teach sex education. This is why the Anti- Proposition 8 campaign and Jack O’Connell say there is no requirement to teach about marriage.
What Jack O’Connell knows but doesn’t say is that 96% of school districts teach comprehensive sex education. Those numbers are from O’Connell’s California Department of Education. 96% must teach respect for marriage.
The only way out is to end sex education programs in all these school districts. That is something that just won’t happen. Look at the outcry that takes place when boards try to emphasize more abstinence. The same groups against Proposition 8 strongly support sex education in our schools. As does O’Connell. They along with the education establishment that created sex education will fight anyone that tries to abolish it.
As you can see, Jack O’Connell saying that Proposition 8 doesn’t affect children in schools is like saying the Governor’s proposed sales tax hike won’t affect people, because there is no mandate that they buy products covered by the sales tax.
But it isn’t just sex education that’s affected. Look at last year’s California Association of Teachers of English Conference. One workshop was entitled “Reading and Writing Beyond the Closet: LGBTQ Inclusion in the English Classroom”. (For those new to the acronyms it is Lesbian, Gay, Bi-Sexual, Trans-gendered, and Questioning). The 2009 conference has a whole strand on the topic.
Teen fiction, elementary school reading books, and history are all fair game. Over ten years ago, the leaders of the West Covina teachers union sued me because I tried to stop a workshop for middle school teachers called “Out of The Closet, Into The Classroom”.
Passage of SB 777, which expanded discrimination law to include ANYTHING that might discriminate on the basis of gender, sexual orientation, or a classification in hate crime statutes, also impacts every aspect of educational activities.
This was before the debate about Proposition 8.
In their decision on the marriage case, the State Supreme Court found that by its very nature, limiting marriage to that between a man and a woman is discrimination based on sexual orientation.
How is a teacher, parent, or school board member going to overcome the Supreme Court, State law, and the educational establishment?
That brings us to opt-out provisions in California law. The very fact that Anti-Proposition 8 folks cite the opt-out provision should be a wake-up call that gay marriage will be taught and they know it. Otherwise, why bring up opt-out provisions?
The opt-out provision is very narrow in California and is limited to “sexually explicit content” that describes the functions of reproductive organs. That’s it. Some have pointed out that two children from the infamous first grade class field trip to a same-sex marriage didn’t go. They didn’t go because it was an off-campus trip and permission is needed to leave campus. Had the marriage been done on the school campus, parents would not need to be notified nor allowed to opt-out.
You don’t have to believe me. Believe the National Center for Lesbian Rights (NCLR). NCLR has given $300,000 to the No on Prop 8 campaign and its Executive Director is on the No on 8 Steering Committee. Their legal analysis, LGBT Legal Issues for School Attorneys, says:
“State law explicitly provides that ‘instruction or materials that discuss gender, sexual orientation, or family life and do not discuss human reproductive organs and their functions’ is not subject to the parental notice and opt-out laws. California Education Code § 51932(b).” (Pg.31)
There is no opt-out for gay marriage and the legal and educational establishment is dedicated to using existing law to force it on public schools.
When you see the advertisements with Jack O’Connell saying that Proposition 8 is not going to lead to gay marriage being taught in schools, he is either a fool or trying to fool you and that is shameful.
Robert Tisinai
First, Karen, it sounds like you are acknowledging that schools are not REQUIRED to teach marriage, and therefore the Yes on Prop 8 people are indeed liars when they say otherwise.
Glad we can agree on that.
Now let’s look at something in your message that simply isn’t true (according to Pugno’s own letter). You say, “Education Code section 51933 makes it clear that schools that teach ‘comprehensive sex education’ have to teach, ‘respect for marriage and committed relationships’…The only way out is to end sex education programs in all these school districts. ”
But it’s not true that the only choice is between comprehensive sex education or not at all. In fact section 51932 states, “This chapter does not apply to description or illustration of human reproductive organs that may appear in a textbook, adopted pursuant to law, on physiology, biology, zoology, general science, personal hygiene, or health.”
So you CAN teach reproductive physiology, hygiene, and health without having to provide “comprehensive” sexual education.
I’ll assume your mistake is an honest one, and not akin to the statements made by the lying proponents of Prop 8.
Robert Tisinai
“Look at the outcry that takes place when boards try to emphasize more abstinence.” Karen, that’s a bit disingenuous. The outcry comes when people advocate abstinence-ONLY education.
Karen Grube
I think you may have missed the point. The whole point he was making was that the teaching of gay marriage and the glbt lifestyle is already out of the realm of health education and into places like English classes, which you can’t opt out of!!! What part of this do you not understand?
And sorry, Robert, it isn’t true that the only outcry comes with abstinence-only education. If teachers even bring up abstinence in class, more some parents and/or the students themselves will accuse the teacher of moralizing because they only want to hear birth control methods that will continue letting them do whatever they want to do, so not only do they NOT listen, they don’t even want it brought up and go on the offensive to stop teachers who try in an attempt to prevent even the possibility of a discussion of WHY abstinence might be a good thing morally. In otherwords, the discussion is stiffled before it even begins.
Voting “YES” on Prop 8 is the only way I know to try to bring a little sanity back into the classroom.
Robert Tisinai
First, I’d like a single news reference regarding your statement that even a mention of abstinence is enough to cause an outcry strong enough to have an effect on what’s taught.
Second, everything you mention about English classes and so forth happened before the Court decision and therefore has nothing at all to do with Prop 8 and therefore will continue even if Prop 8 passes — which means the whole line of reasoning is irrelevant to this discussion. Which leaves intact everything I said about the Prop 8 proponents being liars when they claim that that without Prop 8, gay marriage will be REQUIRED teaching in schools.
The Prop 8 organizers are lying. And that’s just wrong. Either point to the requirement or express regret that your side is lying.
pj gildernew
To Mr. Aok, Mr. Tisinai, and all others who want to discount Prop 8 due to ED Code 51240. Massachusetts (a state in the SAME country we live in ) went through the same process of legalizing same sex marriage by the same means, the state supreme court overturned an existing law and created new laws. Massachusetts currently has similar opt out laws in their ed code as compared to California but because the state recognizes same sex marriages as “normal” there is NO REASON to inform parents that this subject is being taught therefore there is no “opt out” in the eyes of the state or the law. That same scenario would happen in California since legal precedence has been set.
The newest attack on Prop 8 quotes many people in saying its discrimination not to allow same sex couples to wed, is it?!? As I stated before in 2005 state laws protected every right under the law for all domestic partnerships (homo and hetero sexual couples co-habitating), any same sex couple could create a ceremony of vows and have a wonderful reception and Prop 8 would not ever stop this nor does it want to. The last time I checked same rights and ability to pursue happiness under the laws without people stopping you is NOT discrimination. This is plain and simple an attack on society as a whole and in this season of political mantra “CHANGE” is what its all about! Change to what?? Ask the EU citizens or even better ask Canadian citizens what its like to have their societies “changed” for the so called better and tolerance.
Where do you draw the line if marriage is redefined to mean a man+man or woman+woman? Is it then to say marriage=love?? So where does that leave us? If I love a little boy down the street should I be able to marry him? Too far fetched? Ask NAMBLA, they’ll soon sue for their rights to “marriage”. What about the uproar caused in Texas, the Mormon sect who were accused of polygamy? Didn’t they also love one another? At some point certain words or rules of society exist because they are tried and true over the centuries, such as marriage. One man+ one woman create the only environment in which to populate the society but it is also a proven sociological fact that this paradigm is the one in which children become the best adjusted and thrive in the most. Same sex marriage is NOT ABOUT MARRIAGE AT ALL it is about MAKING SOCIETY AS A WHOLE ACCEPT THIS CHOICE AS NORMAL and to allow indoctrination of young children through our education system. I should know I am a parent and a public school teacher and I like the majority of teachers in California Do NOT SUPPORT PROP 8 but we are not given a chance for our voice to be heard as our top level union leaders are ultra liberal and of course homosexuals themselves. In the future I would love to see a direct vote on PAC $$ spent by CTA instead of some back room agreement or board decision as I was NEVER asked what my vote would be on this issue. That is why I have recently took the steps to “opt out” my PAC funds and have them donated to charity instead.
Robert Tisinai
It’s offensive and desperate to equate a loving relationship between two adults with the exploitation of a child. Offensive, desperate and pathetic.
It’s also entirely off the topic, which is:
Show me the requirement that gay marriage will be REQUIRED teaching in schools, or admit your side is lying.
Karen Grube
You’re right! The backers of the effort to stop Prop 8, like several of our state legislators, have been working for a very long time to try to force the gay agenda into our public schools. The Supreme Court’s decision to allow gay marriage until this vote tomorrow just made it easier for them to justify it even further because gay marriage is now state law That’s not a lie. It was their precise strategy. It’s why they didn’t bother to get their own petition effort going to get gay marriage on the ballot themselves. They knew the people of this state wouldn’t approve it, so they went to the courts and convinced a few judges to back them. Besides that, the English curriculum recommendations I mentioned I thought were supposedly going into effect in 2009, so that’s wouldn’t be history. This was intentional! This is precisely how it worked in Massachusetts. Once the law is changed, new state curriculum guidelines have to comply with the law. And that’s precisely what will happen if we don’t pass Prop 8. The truth is that it has already begun. We’ve already had young kids being given ‘ally’ cards saying they’d be ‘allies’ of people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender. And these were kindergarteners, little kids too young to fully understand what those terms meant. You may not like this line of reasoning, but it’s real whether you like it or not.
Robert Tisinai
Show me the requirement that gay marriage will be REQUIRED teaching in schools, or admit your side is lying.
Karen Grube
Hmm . . . Teaching about gay marriage isn’t required? That’s like saying you’re not required to have a drivers license in California. Well, only if you want to drive. So, I guess by that logic, the fact that gay marriage will be taught in 96% of public schools isn’t exactly a ‘requirement.’ I mean, you don’t have to send your kids to public school, nor do you really have to drive here to get to work or the grocery store.
Robert Tisinai
Those 96% of schools are doing what they’re doing voluntarily according to Pugno’s letter. NO ONE HERE HAS SHOWN THAT O’CONNELL IS LYING. And that’s what the accusation made in this blog entry.
Please, please, please. Show me the requirement or admit your side is lying.
Karen Grube
O’Connell’s lie was one of omission, not necessarily commission. It’s not what he said, but what he DIDN’T say that was misleading enough to be called a lie. He didn’t even mention that 96% of schools DO teach about marriage and would have to teach about gay marriage because it’s now state law – until tomorrow That was intentionally deceptive. That would make his statement that schools ‘aren’t required to teach marriage’ register on a lie detector as a lie because it was an intentional deception. Think of ‘voluntary’ the way you can ‘volunteer’ for something your CO ‘asks’ you to do in the Army rather than being ordered to do it. They may call it ‘voluntary’ but it really isn’t when your funding and pretty much everything else about how you run your schools depends on your meeting state guidelines.
Robert Tisinai
“He didn’t even mention that 96% of schools DO teach about marriage and would have to teach about gay marriage because it’s now state law”
“Have to”? No. The don’t. They don’t have to. They just don’t. Pugno’s own letter shows that they don’t.
I have asked over and over to see the requirement. You haven’t shown it to me. You simply haven’t. Yet you insist he’s lying. You can’t back it up with facts, yet you say he’s lying.
I don’t know if you’re a Christian, but there’s an important commandment about bearing false witness. You really need to think about where your support of Prop 8 has led you.
I know you’ll dismiss what I’m saying when you first read it, but you sound like a decent person, one who cares about right and wrong, and I hope at some point you stop and ask yourself whether what you’re saying about this man can stand up to any genuine moral scrutiny.
And I’m done here, because–based on what I’ve seen–what’s the point in continuing?
pj gildernew
You’re absolutely right Robert there isn’t a law that says schools must teach about marriage but if YOU look and listen to not only what has happened in Massachusetts in the past 5 years and what has already begun happening in other states including California in regards to the homosexual lifestyle and especially marriage I think any rational person will deduct the same thing…if a school would want to teach it or even an individual teacher in their own classroom by legal precedent they WOULD NOT have to inform any parent what they were doing EVEN if the parent OPTED OUT their child for such teaching. Have a great day Mr. Tininai and you’re right again about bearing false witness but the 1st and most important commandment (LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD) because if you do that then all other things will take of themselves.
mrjoshua
Robert, Robert, Robert
If you are “out” of the closet, you should come out of your mental “closet”. you are here arguing Semantics. Lie verses white lie, past tense, present tense, tomato-tomatoe, just use a little of whats called “deductive reasoning”. I remember when they started teaching that “10” baloney in schools. Why don’t you look at some of your militant “brothers” websites and see what the agendas really are in the future. On the street other homosexuals laugh at us Christians and say “how do you like getting AIDS, its not the gay cancer anymore”. Its okay to quarantine heteros, but not the poor homosexuals, they are special. This disease went from gays, to bisexuals, and last but not least heteros.Thank you very much.
You know what is so amazing, on all these sites that I visit; When a homosexual does not get there way they begin to whine or they begin playing the religion “card”. Let me say if I can go to hell for being a adulterer, why can’t you get the same punishment for your sin? In Christianity there are to be no double standards. Some may try, but in the end they will get their due punishment too. Sorry Robert, but homosexuality is an abomination to God, not just one of the normal sins. Please note, you brought up the subject of religion.
“Now is the time of Your (Robert) appointed salvation”
Aok
To pj gildernew: it doesn’t sound like you understand how the law works. ED Code 51938 says that schools must notify parents about a comprehensive sexual health education program. If (as a parent) you don’t want your child to receive this instruction (because you think it might cover gay marriage, etc.)…you may opt out. Its really not that complicated. Furthermore, stop this whining about marriage and tried and true sociological blah blah. Not that I don’t believe that a committed partnership is the best place for a child. But, if you really believed that, you’d be out throwing your passion behind making divorce illegal in this country.
Karen Grube
Hey, AOK, that’s not the point. What part of “they’re already adopting guidelines for including readings that focus specifically on gay marriage and the gay lifestyle in English classes in 2009” did you not understand? Clearly, this goes further than comprehensive sexual health education. Besides that, they even took away the ability to opt out of that in Massachusetts. What makes you think for two seconds that we’ll continue to be able to opt out here in California if Prop 8 fails? And, did you not read the above comment above? I’ll quote the lines from it so you’ll actually READ it:
You don’t have to believe me. Believe the National Center for Lesbian Rights (NCLR). NCLR has given $300,000 to the No on Prop 8 campaign and its Executive Director is on the No on 8 Steering Committee. Their legal analysis, LGBT Legal Issues for School Attorneys, says:
“State law explicitly provides that ‘instruction or materials that discuss gender, sexual orientation, or family life and do not discuss human reproductive organs and their functions’ is not subject to the parental notice and opt-out laws. California Education Code § 51932(b).†(Pg.31)
Will Taft
What part do we not understand? Here goes:
1. The English guidelines you talk about were decided on before the Court decision. Even if they won’t be implemented until 2009, they are not the result of the court case.
2. Therefore, the Court decision — and Prop 8 — have nothing to do with these guidelines that bother you so much.
3. So why are you talking about them as if they were relevant to Prop 8?
That’s what we don’t understand. Please explain.
Anyway, it’s interesting that you’re abandoning the reasoning in Pugno’s letter and moving on to new arguments.
Aina Moreno
When it comes to gay marriage, I also agree with him because they have all their right to be with the one whom they really love even with a same sex.