California Proposition 8 Proponents “Profoundly Gratified” in California Supreme Court Rulings
Protect Marriage.Com
The official proponents of Proposition 8 and ProtectMarriage.com – Yes on 8, the campaign committee responsible for its enactment by voters today said it is “profoundly gratified†that the California Supreme Court granted all their requests by agreeing to accept original jurisdiction of three cases challenging the measure’s validity, granted their request to intervene in the cases as Real Parties in Interest, denied the request of others to delay implementation of Proposition 8, and refused to allow outside groups to directly participate in the litigation.
Flap can count as well. Three California Supreme Court Justices that opposed gay marriage plus Justice Kennard (who refused to sign the order and voted to deny the petitions) equals four votes upholding the Proposition and the traditional definition of marriage.
Flap bets the final vote will be 6-1 with Moreno dissenting to uphold Proposition 8 simply because a MORON would have to rule this is a revision of the Constitution and not an amendment.
Stay tuned as the briefs are prepared.
Technorati Tags: California Supreme Court, California Proposition 8, Gay Marriage
17 Comments
Tom Rodgers Jr
I hope the California Supreme Court does the right thing and votes to put a stop to discrimination just as the supreme court stepped in to stop segregation in the south. There are still places in the south where people believe that their God Given Right to own a slave should not have been infringed upon by a distant authority especially since the local majority was not ready to take that step. It saddens me to see the church leading the way in discrimination. Yes there are many laws in the old testament that we have to ask Jesus to help us with. Of course, stoning women for wearing red was considered barbaric even before Jesus was born but it was his words (let he who is without sin cast the first stone) that help us accept that some rules written in the past, at best, have out lived their sanctity. How do we choose. Jesus also helps us with this. He tells us to love God above all else and treat others like we would like to be treated. I recently spent time in Lesotho with the Peace Corp. Parts of the country have old villages that probably haven’t changed much since Christ was born; houses made of dung walls and thatched roofs. These villages are now forced to change because the world around them is crowding in. I like to think that Christians are helping them through this difficult time. Many though just can’t accept this new way of thinking. Some of their traditional Spiritual leaders are very good. They try to educate themselves so they can lead their followers to greater understanding of the often scary changes that are arrive on their new roads. Some of the Spiritual leaders are very evil and try to gain strength by alienating weaker populations. Some go as far as cutting up small children while they are alive to use in potions and amulets. In Lesotho, they call Spiritual leaders that guide with truth and wisdom, Traditional Healers. They called the others Witch Doctors. In America, we don’t have a distinction between those Christians that lead towards greater understanding and those that need to sanctify their institutions with the pain and suffering of others. Finally, let’s never forget that discrimination and hate do not sit ideal. They either escalate or they subside. We have a well documented history of how hatred started with a few infringements on rights and escalated to gas chambers and torture. I hope there are still enough Healing Christians around to rebuild the underground railroad to Canada or Europe when that becomes my only option.
Flap
Oh please.
Defining marriage as one man and one woman is not all of that. I am surprised you did not stay in South Africa which is ajoining Lesotho where gay marriage is legal.
Underground railroad for what?
Cottonmouth
Yes gay people should have the same rights as straight people.
But having equal rights does not include the right to reinvent or redefine what marriage is. Stop flattering yourselves… no one cares who you sleep with. Just stop cramming it down our throats and trying to force your beliefs on us.
Nicole
I’m still trying to figure out what you’re protecting children from. Reality?
Flap
Reality?
That homosexuality is an accepted norm?
“Whether you like it or not,” right?
Steve Silberman
My husband and I have been together for 14 years and got legally married here in California a few months ago. We love, honor, and cherish one another, and have pledged to be together until death do us part. We are treasured members of each other’s famlies (and my husband’s family members are staunch Republicans from the Midwest who voted for McCain, but welcomed me into the family with open arms and warm hearts.) How are we “redefining” marriage? We grew up in the same world that you did. Marriage means the same to us as it does to you. Nearly every reputable scientist believes that homosexuality is a genetic variant, like being black, left-handed, or red haired — not a “lifestyle choice.” Who are you to tell us we can’t express our love and committment to one another in the same way that you would want to?
Flap
What benefit to society is there in redefining marriage?
No one is telling you about expressing love or your committment to each other or anything else.
You are telling me that marriage must be defined differently.
The voters in California think differently.
Steve Silberman
Your claim that we are “redefining” marriage is circular. The word and the deed mean exactly the same to us as it does to you. What was the “benefit to society” of removing the bans against interracial marriage in the 1950s? Answer: More happy marriages, more spouses who could visit one another in the hospital if they got sick, and more human dignity for everyone involved, including society at large. I am not telling you to “redefine” marriage. I am telling you to extend its benefits and its sanctity to people who are different from you.
A slim majority of voters in California voted for the proposition after a $25 million deceptive ad campaign financed by out-of-state groups swung the polls. You are celebrating the sadness and degradation of other people.
Flap
Answered my question with a question. Try again.
Spouses can already visit each other in the hospital. Ever hear about domestic partnership law in California?
What other benefits to society, besides the fact that it makes YOU feel good?
The california Supreme Court redefined marriage and all of the lawsuits to overturn Proposition 8 aim to redefine marriage – your way. So, what are you talking about?
Slim majority? Hardly. Proposition 8 passed with over 500,000 votes majority.
Name calling is pathetic.
Steve Silberman
I didn’t call you any names, and rhetorical attacks on an issue of such profound importance for our lives are just childish. Marriage isn’t only about making me “feel good” any more than your marriage is about making you “feel good.” It’s about the core and the heart of human life: devotion, commitment, stability, love. Feel free to flatter yourself while you justify your prejudices and dress them up as something nobler. If you had a truly compassionate view of human life, you would want the benefits of marriage to be extended to the millions of gay people who feel exactly the same way about their spouse as you do about yours.
Flap
Didn’t answer the questions and now you want to shame me.
The core of human life sounds like feel good for you and forcing me and my religion to accept homosexuality as normal – whether we like it or not.
What benefits of marriage do the domestic partnership laws of California not provide?
Millions of gay people in California? Excuse me.
Steve Silberman
If your “question” involves repeating your assertion that my spouse and I are trying to “redefine” marriage, I’ll simply say gently again that I challenge an assumption disguised as a question.
I am not forcing your religion to do anything. Some churches and temples have chosen to honor same-sex couples, while others have not. Prop. 8 violates the right of individual religious communities to make those decisions. But Prop. 8 is not about religious marriage anyway, as you know; it’s about civil marriage. In fact, you’re intruding your religion into a state issue. I respect your faith and the profound good works performed by people of faith every day, but I wouldn’t have just sat quietly by if you had been one of those people on the steps of schoolhouses in the deep South blocking black kids’ equal access to education. Many Christians, including Martin Luther King, were on the forefront of the civil rights movement, seeing in it an expression of Jesus’ teachings.
I’ll excuse you while you go check your facts. The latest census shows that there are about 36 million people in California. Using the standard estimates of what percentage of the population is gay — between 2 and 7 percent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual) — that’s somewhere between 750,000 and 2.5 million. That’s a lot of people whose right to the pursuit of one of the highest and most beneficial forms of human happiness was just taken away by Prop. 8.
Your statements bring to mind those made in support of laws against interracial marriage that were on the books in 16 states until 1967, when the Supreme Court overturned them in a case named Loving v.Virginia. The couple in question, a white man named Richard Loving and a black woman, Mildred Jeter, drove to Washington to say their vows, because their home state of Virginia had banned interracial marriages. For this offense, they were exiled from Virginia for 25 years by a trial judge who declared, “Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages.”
Overturning the judge’s decision, the High Court ruled, “The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men… Marriage is one of the ‘basic civil rights of man,’ fundamental to our very existence and survival.”
Amen!
Steve Silberman
And that’s all I have to say. This is your blog and your community, and I don’t want to be impolite. Just want to give you some food for thought. Thank you and take care.
Flap
Another “seminar” gay marriage commenter bites the dust.
You said millions of homosexuals in California. If one or two per cent of California’s population is homosexual (which is probably a reach) there would still be less than a million.
If the homosexual community had so many voters then why did they not turn out to vote on such an important issue? Steve, the numbers are just not there.
Thank you for commenting.
Tom Rodgers Jr
Hi Everyone,
A lot has happened since I stepped out last night. First, South Africa is a beautiful country. I don’t think they are one of the 5 countries that have equal rights for all. They are a country that is struggling to overcome a direction that those in power believed was their right and now most have come to realize was an error. Their learning quickly but they have a long, long road in front of them. What they know now is that it is much, much easier not to make a mistake than it is to fix one.
We see that throughout history. Barry Goldwater and many other pro segregationist publicly apologized for their errors in the south, America apologized to the Chinese community for their internment, The Germans and even the Catholic church apologized for their part in the Holocaust. Others never apologized but turned directions and championed human rights. In the Bible, Paul persecuted the Christians and later became the single most important force to found Christianity as we know it today. People make mistakes when the take the rights away from others. Stand up, brush yourself off and do the right thing.
So, what is the benefit to society to redefine legal marriage rights like we have redefined woman’s rights and black’s rights and continue to redefine immigrant rights. First, many gays have their own kids and even more adopt the neglected or abandoned children of straight couples. Currently, despite civil union laws, to insure that these kids have the same rights as any other kids, their parents must initiate expensive legal battles. This is an emotional and financial burden. The energy expended on this kind of battle not only will have a negative impact on the children but the money and energy would be used to make a better community for all. The legal battles have to do with health insurance, surviving spouse benefits, adoption after the biological parent has died. Secondly, the knowledge that the hatred that Witch Doctor churches continue to aggressively promote against gays is limited only to their own Payton Place Temples will have profound physiological and mental health advantages that will ripple through all of society.
As I mentioned before, hatred doesn’t just stop on its own once it gets going. The Witch Doctor Churches didn’t spend millions and millions of dollars to stop at one unfriendly law. The possibilities to discriminate against gays based on the legal label of “married” is endless. In Arizona and New Mexico it is already illegal for unmarried people to adopt or become foster parents. That has to be putting a burden on an already strapped social program. Did I mention that in Lesotho there were Witch Doctors that actually cut up little children for potions and amulets? Doesn’t sound much different, does it. Just a few years ago, Virginia passed a law that said single people couldn’t sign a contract together, not even to buy a house. Luckily that one was overturned by their supreme court. I hope our own Supreme court has the same good sense.
The church of traditional healers will tell you that marriage is defined as glorifying the love two people have for each other. Taking away someone’s rights doesn’t sanctify anything. If you have to see it as redefining an institution than remember this, redefining a wrong will benefit everyone. If you believe gays should have equal rights you believe that gays have the right to marriage.
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