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You obviously weren’t there to see the protest today, because it was HUGE and in no way a failure! What kind of redneck site it this? Your attempt to include false reports to try to weaken the tide of activism that will ultimately bring justice by overturning proposition 8′s bigoted attempt to strip civil rights from citizens will be seen for what it is: more lies from the gay marriage opponents!!

I loved the diversity and the creativity represented in the video. Thanks for showing the multiplicity of the LGBT communities: many walks of life, many bodies, many styles, many people …

1,

If you don’t like rednecks then stay away from them and they will stay away from you!:-))

4,

Uhhhhhh……no, they don’t.

The lunatic left’s mantra is always tolerance for me but not for thee. For five thousand years marriage has been definded as between a man and a woman and they wish to hijack that definition that to their own political ends. It is nothing more than another attempt by people (who really care for others!) to destroy America and install a utopian socialist state.

I was there; it was huge. Your statement “Of course, there was the obligatory Christian and Mormon bigotry at the Los Angeles demonstration” is irresponsible and typical of right-wing divide and conquer strategies (that’s why there is so much focus on the race on voters in the right-wing press). The Bigotry of the Mormons towards gays and lesbians is why we were there. Denying a segment of the population marriage is not only bigotry, it’s an attempt to render marginalized groups less than human.

You are clearly biased, homophobic, and have no idea what you are talking about. Nice try though, unfortunately you fail in making your point…It was a historic day for civil rights and anyone who is interested will clearly see that and learn!!

By the way your “sign” quotes are pretty funny, too bad they are fake. I was there and saw many many signs such as “god loves me” and other pro-religious statements. The only negative comments on religion called out the Mormon church for presenting lies in their campaign, etc.

@11.

Yes, I am biased. Can you please tell us why you need our permission to hijack the definition of marriage when Kalie-Forn-Yah has same sex partner benefits? Can you tell us how we as straight people will benefit from the glory that will be in ‘Gay Marriage’? By the way, Texas has a constitutional amendment against such tomfoolery that passed two years ago by a three to one margin.

also, babsy-
to answer your (uneducated) question – you have to be legally married to have many rights. Marriage began as a religious ceremony and then loads of ‘rights’, that have nothing to do with religion, were attached to it. A friend of mine lost his partner to aids. They were together for 10 years, and he nursed him as he watched him die. In his final days in the hospital, he was not allowed into the room because he wasn’t married. His partner’s mom was a right-wing nutjob who insisted the hospital follow the law and not allow his partner in as he died because he wasn’t ‘family’ and they weren’t married. According to the nurse, his partner died in tears because he didn’t have the love of his life with him. Only his hateful, judgemental mother. NO body should have to die like this. The surviving partner is still grieve-stricken to this very day, 8 years later.
This is just stupid. Cruel.

That very human aspect aside, you cannot file joing taxes in a civil union as married couples can. Spousal health insurance benefits can be denied, as with Social Security survivor benefits. I know gay couples who have been together longer than most married couples I know. It is unfair that we discriminate against the gay couples.

Everyone, educate yourselves. And please, just stop hating. Being gay isn’t tomfoolery. Geez.
EVOLVE people!!!!

Flap, you hateful person. Go ahead and keep telling yourself a crowd of 10,000 plus people isnt much. Go ahead. You must be a foul, foul person. How sad that this is how you choose to spend your time: hating. Discriminating.
You are a bigot. Period.
I hope you try to do some good one day.

Ok…I dont know who wrote the “summary” of what went down yesteday, but it was in no way a failure and as for the poor turnout, well I dont know what the author is talking about. It was wall to wall people for several city blocks. As a matter of fact I took off a little early because I was starting to feel a bit too claustrophobic. Who wrote this the head of the Mormon church?? It was an awesome display of unity and I hope that we dont stop until the California Supreme Court overturns this ridiciulous ballot measure. Can you imagine the outcry if this law was aimed at any other minority? Imagine if they told the black community or hispanic community or the Jews that they couldnt marry who they wanted. Can you even fathom something like that? The best measurement of whether or not you think this ballot measure is ok is if you can imagine yourself being ok with the results, if the results effected YOU. Would you still be ‘alright” with the way this has turned out if the results took something away from you? (Its a good equation to see if you would still feel the same way). Something else to consider is this: I have heard many people saying that “well its been put to a vote and so now thats the way it should be” as if the majority should dictate the way we should live. Imagine if you will what the outcome would have been if they had put the question of segregation up for a vote in the south in the 1950′s? What if you had let even put the question of slavery up for a vote in the 1850′s? Would those results indicate that the country should continue on the path that it had been on. Change is a difficult thing for people to embrace, but change is what is needed here. We cannot as a nation simply put peoples rights up for a simple yes or no vote. I mean today its the gays, and tomorrow….who knows, it could be….YOU!

Flap, how many do you want? I suppose you think I’m making this up.

Google “history of marriage” and you’ll find 10 million.
Here are just a few resources, from historical, psychological, and religious resources.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20050506-000006.html
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09693a.htm
http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp12132003.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/issues-action/medical-privacy/marriage-6402.htm

and in response to your post #8: You say there’s no support? You’re wrong. I support marriage between any consenting adults, including Gay Marriage and was unable to attend the protest due to work. If it makes you feel better to think this was a flop, enjoy. You are still wrong. Enjoy living in ignorance and fear.

Flap. it seems that you are using or embracing the eternal method of the GOP/conservatives/right wing to exaggerate your point to make your point seem more valid. The arguement that the rally didnt garner very much support (which isnt true) still doesnt hold much water in trying to point out that the battle was over with the election and now we should just get on with out lives. That just isnt going to happen. We are in a unique situation here in CA because although there have been other ballot measures in other states. California was the only state where the right to marry already existed and then was voted away. Personally (and this is just my opinion) I think that the court will rule that since they already concluded in the first ruling that the right to marry was a “right” and that to exclude homosexuals was in fact taking that civil right away, they will conclude that this vote is unenforceable. I mean in the first ruling they said that ..yes it is a civil right and they are being excluded so that is unconstitutional and they must be allowed to marry. Now that it is established that it is in fact a right, how could they go back and say that just because its gone to a vote we are no longer going to consider it a civeil right. They have already established that it is a right and now I think they will go in and say that no matter what the “majority” says you can not take a civil right away from one group while extolling it to another……..Remember it says that ‘all men are created equal”…NOT “all men are created equal unless you happen to be gay”……I just have to ask this question though, I have to wonder if those same people who are saying now that “its been put to a vote and now its law’….I wonder if those same people will be of the same mindset when the Supreme court says that this is unconstitutional….It will be law then, and then I guess that we should all just go home and stop compalining……dont you think?

JDB

Because your perceive (somehow) the turnout to be small doesn’t make prop 8 legitimate.

Recall the Supreme Court……IN YOUR DREAMS!! It will NEVER happen. I have to give you creidtt Flap that at least you hold your ideals so close that you actually believe that they are possible. Recall the Supreme Court? Can anybody tell me if that has ever happened? I dont think it has ever been done and I doubt it will be. The underlying issue here (and Flap you never addressed my earlier points about does a majority vote make something morally and legally binding) Number one, just because this has been put to a vote DOES NOT make it morally or legally binding. As I pointed out in an earlier post there have been any number of things in our history that would have easily passed if put to a vote and yet they no longer exist. ( for Gods sake we had a civil war because half the county thought it was their God given right to own anther human being) Yes a long bloody civil war because half the nation felt so strongly about the issue. Furthermore how many people died in the south and ignored state and federal law when they were told that they had to start segregation. These are all perfect examples of when change was forced onto the majority (sometimes with dire consequences) yet here we are a better nation for it. It is the same thing here. As far as this nonsense about a recall goes, I hardly know where to begin, or even should I. Did they recall the judge who ordered segregation? Did they recall the judge(s) who said abortion was within a womans right? It just wont happen. Your argeument starts off with the assumption that should any judge reverse this ballot measure, they woule be doing something contrary to the law or constitutuion……that is just not the case. They are intrepreting the constituion in a way that you dont agree with and that does not constitute a reason for recall. Oh Im sure there will be a lot of hub-bubbing and screaming that they overturned the will of the people, but as I said befoe the will of the people can not alway be taken for gospel.

GAME SET MATCH

JDB

Flapster!!! You should reconsider. It was a HUGE turnout! 12,000 is 0.4% of LA’s population! How could anyone with twelve functioning neurons not see this as a HUGE MANDATE for CHANGE!!!!???? Bawhahahahaha!!!!

@36
same sex debauchery? Ha! you have NO control over that. Marriage may be the issue, but relationships and families you have no control over.

@39 miss babs, how ’bout the 5,301,540 people that voted against Prop 8, who cares about the march. 47% of Californian’s want fairness.

Sounds like Flap thinks ILLEGAL Aliens should have more rights than American citizens. hmmm. Bigger voice in the Mexican border states on that occasion, I’ll give you that. If you wanna think this march represents the voice of gay marriage support, I guess the conservatives have to feel they’re winning somewhere. the next four years will be much more fun than the last 8. Despite the disaster George is leaving the country in, we do have HOPE. We see the country having the ability to be more well than damaged. Whether YOU like it or not. ha.

mmm hot man sex.

Yes, Nicky, you’re correct in my misspelling of ‘its’ (possessive form). I failed to proofread my reply before posting, but you know how us idiots are. There is one thing you seem to be unable to comprehend in our spirited exchanges: I DON’T CARE WHAT YOU WANT. Got that? Have a pleasant evening.

Wow Flap,
From how you extol traditional marriage you would think that straight people have made it an unequaled success! and which point in the 5,000+ years of man/woman marriage would you like to point to for reference? When women were the property of their husbands, polygamous marriages (in the Bible), arranged marriages, divorced marriages? You remind me of the folks that are constantly quoting Leviticus as justification for outdated and ignorant points of view. Grow up and learn that civil and human rights are not up for popular vote. If you want a theocracy, move to Iran.

Bigots, nothing but bigots.
WHY do YOU care if gays marry? It has no effect on your life.
Traditional marriage is NOT sacred. Divorce proves such.
The procreation argument strips marriage down to little more then the ability to procreate, and so those who CANNOT and have no intention of having children should not be allowed to marry. Be it those who are sterile, old or even on birth control. Married couples should NOT be allowed to use birth control as it goes against the natural ways of your lord.

The protect the children argument is so full of lies that even those FOR proposition 8 had difficultly believing it. Marriage is NOT taught in schools at ANY age. Marriage, be it homosexual or heterosexual, is taught by PARENTS. Sex education is taught in schools, which is optional of course, with NO mention of marriage or even relationships.

Condemning those who don’t prescribe to your religious beliefs is going against the foundations of this country.
I’m sorry but this is a losing battle for you. Look at the numbers. Proposition 8 won by a small majority, a VERY small majority. Four years ago the numbers against homosexual marriage were overwhelming, and now they aren’t. I know it scares you, for whatever reason that may be, just as womens right’s and desegregation scared the people of this country not so long ago. This is a country of progress and change, however slow and that change is inevitable. We will move forward.

good point: why does Flop care about gay marriage? Be interesting to find out what’s really at stake for him personally.

@50

I will never vote in California, land of kooks and flakes.

@53

My dear, sweet Annie: Yes, I’m a bigot. What of it? There are many bigots in this world and life is unfair. As long as your happiness depends on what I do you will forever be MISERABLE.

@54

Nicky, Nicky, Nicky!!! Spinning????? Surely the lawyers for your side checked on the legitimacy of the proposition before it went on the ballot, no?

@55/58
I don’t see Tom calling anyone names, he asks a question.

@57 babsy
1) Flap asks that you not call him or anyone else names.. you call him and I “kooks and flakes” (see terms of service)
(and yes, you keep agreeing to names called on you, which you agree to and wear like a badge of honor. still shaking my head)

2) My name isn’t Nicky

3) Seeing you don’t vote here, your opinion has no bearing on this issue. No body cares what you think.
I don’t think Annie will be miserable at all as much as you’d like to think you have that power, you don’t.

4) your need to be so involved in this California matter from your seat in TX makes me wonder if you’re someone’s internet girlfriend. Don’t you have family and issues there to occupy your concern?

@ 56
Flap had to say “most” because it’s not decided yet. It’s up to interpretation. and the people aren’t the final authority in cases of discrimination. If it’s pushed to federal court, separation of church and state will have to be addressed fully. The churches don’t want that– it eliminates power they’ve been grooming for generations. All Americans won’t agree to give up their individual rights or follow one common church. It’s anti American. Why would I convert to your faith? Would you convert to mine?

@58
Flap, I’m curious what rights you want for your children and grandchildren? If they are gay, will you punish them for it? (I know a whole lot of gay male ex Mormons who were physically tortured by their church and loved ones.) My thought is that loving parents embrace and protect their children, religious or not. In reading Maggie Gallagher’s article, I still don’t see how gay marriage interferes with, but instead upholds, those great traditions of family in society. I would think your common enemy would be divorce, adultery, and unmarried pregnancy, not people’s desire to be monogamous, committed, and family oriented. (Those “common enemies” are not new issues or gay issues.)

Barbara, you are nothing like me. Keep trolling, you’re funny to watch. Your comments border on threats. Sorry you have no will to make the world a better place. Go back to the dark ages where you belong. Bring your marshmellows.

Sweet Nicky,

I am not Barbara and I have no reason to threaten anyone as my IQ is only 64. I do have the will to make the world a better place to live. I am going to sell all I own and give it to the One. You know, to spread the wealth around for those less willing to work than me. See, you were so wrong about me!

Flap, Can you put your objections in your own words very simply? Thank you for those posts and I have to say that I really don’t agree with the points made, but more importantly but they don’t really explain why you personally have some much at stake in this issue. Gay marriage has been legal in Canada (where I am from) for a while and the world and its children are still safe! I know everyone makes this point, but people used to say the same things about interracial marriage, and it is a very interesting thing to compare them, because it turned out to simply be about fear. Fear of the new, or different…

I am a dual citizen and live in California. My stake in this is simply wanting a better world for everyone. I think there are a lot of gay parents and gay children who would be better served by a society that accepts and welcomes everyone. When I think about all the gay and lesbian teenagers and children who have been harmed by a lot of the fear and superstition around homosexuality (Matthew Shephard, if you remember that tragic story, immediately comes to mind), it makes me sad. I hope that this whole issue resolves without anymore harm (physical or psychological) being done to those who are most vulnerable to the kinds of prejudice that this whole Prop 8 debate has unleashed. It is a good dialogue to have and important, I believe, to examine ones own prejudices when confronted with new situations or new kinds of social arrangements. But i guess you and I will have to respectively disagree. That’s about all I really want to say on this!

It doesn’t matter whether or not you think gay marriage is “natural” or “right.” You have to look at the proposition for what it is. It’s trying to take away rights from a certain minority group. Therefore, it is unconstitutional. The end.

Ohh, please. Those signs are completely harmless compared to the shit pulled during the recent tea parties …
You call their basic defense (all of which looks pretty legitimate to me) bigoted? The whole opposition’s campaign is to continue their “privilege” of slandering and hurting a whole group of people (its in fact their goal).

“what shit was pulled”

Ohh, please. Even putting Obama’s head on a figure of Hitler was mild compared to some of the stuff I saw at the tea parties. This is surely more inflammatory than someone pointing out that they can’t get married (or, ghasp, that they actually have a state of taxation without representation … a common, and largely fake, theme at the tea parties).

“prop 8 passed, get over it”

You don’t “get over” any of your losses, and its absurd to just assume a group should give up because they were voted against ( I am sure someone like you would have told that to the African Americans, women, etc of the past. Your arguments are still no more valid, or really dissimilar in any significant way, than those that fought and even continue to fight against the “perversion” of interracial marriage [some southern states would likely still vote against it today if given the chance, BTW] )

Flap, it’s interesting how you criticized the turnout for the protests in these comments but then praised the Tea Party turnouts. What were the tea party turnouts as a proportion of the total national population? Just for the sake of comparison and all that. I heard around 250k-300k total turnout was estimated, was that right?

I’m just pointing out an interesting little thing.