Los Angeles Proposition 8 Gay Marriage Protest a Flop
Not a very good turn out for the gay marriage folks on a warm summer-like day in Los Angeles to protest the passage of California’s Proposition 8 which restored the traditional definition of marriage.
In Los Angeles, protesters clustered shoulder to shoulder near City Hall before setting off on a downtown march, chanting and carrying rainbow flags and signs bearing messages such as “No More Mr. Nice Gay” and “No on Hate.”
The Los Angeles Police Department estimated that 10,000 to 12,000 people attended the event, well below the 40,000 the department had expected.
There were wild-fires in Los Angeles and Orange Counties which did tie up some of the freeways (but not towards downtown) but the heat was not oppressive (despite what the Los Angeles Times or laist said). The No on 8 did NOT turn out a crowd. And, this is why despite a biased ballot proposition language by left wing radical, California Attorney General Jerry Brown and endorsement by every major newspaper in California Yes on 8 passed – banning gay marriage.
Of course, there was the obligatory Christian and Mormon bigotry at the Los Angeles demonstration:
Among other colorful or provocative anti-Proposition 8 signs on display around the state, some making reference to support for the initiative by Mormons:
“If heaven discriminates, I don’t want to go.”
“The same Bible was used to justify slavery.”
“Hmm. . . . What’s so traditional about polygamy?”
“Are you better off now that I can’t marry?”
“Where’s My Gay Tax Break?”
“Joseph Smith had 33 wives. Gays only want one.”
“I was born gay. You were taught religion.”
“My brother is getting married . . . again. Why can’t I get married once?”
“WWJD with $76 m? Not Prop. 8.”
Flap can only imagine the film footage being accumulated for the next ballot proposition regarding gay marriage in California.
But, if the homosexual community wishes to win the next election they will have to turn out more folks and win some hearts and minds of California voters.
Today’s demonstration failed miserably in both categories.
Technorati Tags: Gay Marriage, California Proposition 8
78 Comments
Flap
@48
Better read the California Constitution.
Flap
@49
But, amending the California Constitution is and it has been changed.
Get over it or try winning an election.
Anne
Bigots, nothing but bigots.
WHY do YOU care if gays marry? It has no effect on your life.
Traditional marriage is NOT sacred. Divorce proves such.
The procreation argument strips marriage down to little more then the ability to procreate, and so those who CANNOT and have no intention of having children should not be allowed to marry. Be it those who are sterile, old or even on birth control. Married couples should NOT be allowed to use birth control as it goes against the natural ways of your lord.
The protect the children argument is so full of lies that even those FOR proposition 8 had difficultly believing it. Marriage is NOT taught in schools at ANY age. Marriage, be it homosexual or heterosexual, is taught by PARENTS. Sex education is taught in schools, which is optional of course, with NO mention of marriage or even relationships.
Condemning those who don’t prescribe to your religious beliefs is going against the foundations of this country.
I’m sorry but this is a losing battle for you. Look at the numbers. Proposition 8 won by a small majority, a VERY small majority. Four years ago the numbers against homosexual marriage were overwhelming, and now they aren’t. I know it scares you, for whatever reason that may be, just as womens right’s and desegregation scared the people of this country not so long ago. This is a country of progress and change, however slow and that change is inevitable. We will move forward.
Nicole
@51
Article 18 of the state Constitution provides that the document can be changed by amendment or by revision. An amendment may be enacted by initiative with a majority vote, whereas a revision must first be passed by two-thirds of the Legislature before being submitted to the voters.
Seeing there was already an amendment allowing the legality of gay marriage, Prop 8 appears to be a revision of existing policy, thus requiring 2/3 legislative vote first.
keep spinning.
tom folland
good point: why does Flop care about gay marriage? Be interesting to find out what’s really at stake for him personally.
Flap
@54
Most legal authorities say it is an amendment. But, this is what has been plead to to the California Supreme Court. It will be a reach to change a vote of the people TWICE.
If the California Supremes throw out Proposition 8 then we will sue in federal court and recall the court – just like Rose Bird.
I doubt this will be necessary though.
Babsy
@50
I will never vote in California, land of kooks and flakes.
@53
My dear, sweet Annie: Yes, I’m a bigot. What of it? There are many bigots in this world and life is unfair. As long as your happiness depends on what I do you will forever be MISERABLE.
@54
Nicky, Nicky, Nicky!!! Spinning????? Surely the lawyers for your side checked on the legitimacy of the proposition before it went on the ballot, no?
Flap
@54 and 55
Tom, first of all, don’t call me names. Read my terms of use above.
Go here and watch the videos: http://flapsblog.com/2008/11/13/gay-marriage-headed-back-to-california-ballot-in-june-2010/
and here: http://flapsblog.com/2008/11/12/elton-john-criticizes-california-proposition-8-for-focusing-on-marriage/
This explains my stake in this issue in a nutshell – for my children and grandchildren.
Update: Here is a piece by Maggie Gallagher that also explains what is at stake: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/commentary/la-oe-gallagher1-2008nov01,0,5151041.story
Nicole
@55/58
I don’t see Tom calling anyone names, he asks a question.
@57 babsy
1) Flap asks that you not call him or anyone else names.. you call him and I “kooks and flakes” (see terms of service)
(and yes, you keep agreeing to names called on you, which you agree to and wear like a badge of honor. still shaking my head)
2) My name isn’t Nicky
3) Seeing you don’t vote here, your opinion has no bearing on this issue. No body cares what you think.
I don’t think Annie will be miserable at all as much as you’d like to think you have that power, you don’t.
4) your need to be so involved in this California matter from your seat in TX makes me wonder if you’re someone’s internet girlfriend. Don’t you have family and issues there to occupy your concern?
@ 56
Flap had to say “most” because it’s not decided yet. It’s up to interpretation. and the people aren’t the final authority in cases of discrimination. If it’s pushed to federal court, separation of church and state will have to be addressed fully. The churches don’t want that– it eliminates power they’ve been grooming for generations. All Americans won’t agree to give up their individual rights or follow one common church. It’s anti American. Why would I convert to your faith? Would you convert to mine?
@58
Flap, I’m curious what rights you want for your children and grandchildren? If they are gay, will you punish them for it? (I know a whole lot of gay male ex Mormons who were physically tortured by their church and loved ones.) My thought is that loving parents embrace and protect their children, religious or not. In reading Maggie Gallagher’s article, I still don’t see how gay marriage interferes with, but instead upholds, those great traditions of family in society. I would think your common enemy would be divorce, adultery, and unmarried pregnancy, not people’s desire to be monogamous, committed, and family oriented. (Those “common enemies” are not new issues or gay issues.)
Babsy
Dearest Nicky,
I am just like you. I will go until I am stopped. Got that? As for Annie, the only power I have over her, or you for that matter, is what you give me. So I say again, as long as your happiness depends on what someone else does (i.e., the State giving you gay ‘marriage’), you will suffer. Have a pleasant evening.
Nicole
Barbara, you are nothing like me. Keep trolling, you’re funny to watch. Your comments border on threats. Sorry you have no will to make the world a better place. Go back to the dark ages where you belong. Bring your marshmellows.
Flap
@59
Tom addressed me as FLOP. Read the terms of use.
Babsy has a stake in California’s Proposition 8 because had it not passed and gay marriage was legal, the homosexual lobby was immediately going to sue in federal court to overturn the DOMA.
The California supreme court will rule whether the fifteen words are an amendment or a revision to the California Constitution. I doubt they will consider it a revision. But, if they do, the people of California will recall all of the Justices and amend the Constitution to strip them of jurisdiction in the definition of marriage.
You see the will of the people has advantages.
I don’t think you will ever understand my stake in this issue.
Updated:
But, here is another video that lays it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-jc4ujp9Ok
Babsy
Sweet Nicky,
I am not Barbara and I have no reason to threaten anyone as my IQ is only 64. I do have the will to make the world a better place to live. I am going to sell all I own and give it to the One. You know, to spread the wealth around for those less willing to work than me. See, you were so wrong about me!
Nicole
@62
I haven’t stopped hearing what you have to say, or refused to understand your perspective. The youtube video perhaps states your fears. I feel like you’re saying that your rights and freedoms must be upheld at the cost of mine and others.
Does this mean you refuse treatment to gay patients or refuse to bill domestic partner insurance? I may be misreading, are you anti gay or anti gay marriage? btw, when you discounted wiki and PP as resources, you didn’t discount the Catholic website that substantiated the same historical information.
Marriage for procreation sake insults infertile couples. Procreation isn’t a requirement in America, and we are populated enough. Why should it be the foundation for marriage?
Would you support Civil Unions having ALL the legal rights of Marriage? Should people have the rights of inheritance on property they built together? Should family units have custody rights over those of distant blood relatives?
I’d support the right for churches to allow or deny marriages within their denominations and properties to follow the rules their congregations choose. I’m not asking for the sacrament of Holy Matrimony. I actually refused it for personal reasons. There are lots of marriages I wouldn’t approve of if my opinion had more value than another’s personal rights. I don’t love paying for other people’s bad choices.
How do other marriages legitimize your own? Does it keep you married longer? Make your marriage happier? My guess is that everyone responding to this blog has been in a loving long term relationship of some kind, solemnized by religion or law or love. Should we go back to just trading our daughters for dowries?
I think DOMA will be under scrutiny no matter what happens to Prop 8. DOMA is 15 years old. Not reflective of historical nor modern society as a whole. The author, Bob Barr, has since apologized for his sponsorship of the DOMA. Prop 8 is not something that passed by an overwhelming majority. Ventura and LA Counties were split so close to 50-50, a few thousand votes could have taken it the other way. I’ll have to say, I’m ashamed of all the people I know that didn’t bother to vote. Even if they would have tipped the scale in the other direction, I’d respect their taking a stand. I bet you don’t want the people of Massachusetts or Connecticut making the law here in California. It’s still a state issue and as you keep saying the people have spoken, yes, they have. Twelve million people voted on the issue. In effect, the state was very close to being split down the middle. This is not an issue that a small minority are pushing.
I respect Flap’s stance on this issue. I don’t have the same perspective, but I understand in some ways why you think things shouldn’t change.
(Babsy keeps typing my name erroneously. Tom may have just misread and mistyped as well. The word flop is in the blog title and perhaps Tom’s intention wasn’t to call you a name, Flap. Curious nickname.. is it dentistry related?) I actually did read your Terms of Use.
@63
in California you have no power. In America you have as much power as me. One vote. Isn’t this a great country? I still have freedom from your religion. No matter how much money you throw at your beliefs, goodness always prevails in the end. Hate no matter how disguised, is still hate.
tom folland
Flap, Can you put your objections in your own words very simply? Thank you for those posts and I have to say that I really don’t agree with the points made, but more importantly but they don’t really explain why you personally have some much at stake in this issue. Gay marriage has been legal in Canada (where I am from) for a while and the world and its children are still safe! I know everyone makes this point, but people used to say the same things about interracial marriage, and it is a very interesting thing to compare them, because it turned out to simply be about fear. Fear of the new, or different…
Flap
@65
If you do not understand from the material I presented then you never will.
Since you are not an American tell me why you have anything at stake with the issue?
tom folland
I am a dual citizen and live in California. My stake in this is simply wanting a better world for everyone. I think there are a lot of gay parents and gay children who would be better served by a society that accepts and welcomes everyone. When I think about all the gay and lesbian teenagers and children who have been harmed by a lot of the fear and superstition around homosexuality (Matthew Shephard, if you remember that tragic story, immediately comes to mind), it makes me sad. I hope that this whole issue resolves without anymore harm (physical or psychological) being done to those who are most vulnerable to the kinds of prejudice that this whole Prop 8 debate has unleashed. It is a good dialogue to have and important, I believe, to examine ones own prejudices when confronted with new situations or new kinds of social arrangements. But i guess you and I will have to respectively disagree. That’s about all I really want to say on this!
Aneriz
Boy, you guys surely know how to beat a dead dog!
Prop 8 passed. Done deal.
Alexia
It doesn’t matter whether or not you think gay marriage is “natural” or “right.” You have to look at the proposition for what it is. It’s trying to take away rights from a certain minority group. Therefore, it is unconstitutional. The end.
Flap
California Proposition 8 restored the traditional definition of marriage (one man and one woman) to the California constiution.
Hence, it is not unconstitutional.
Move along…..
Jake
Ohh, please. Those signs are completely harmless compared to the shit pulled during the recent tea parties …
You call their basic defense (all of which looks pretty legitimate to me) bigoted? The whole opposition’s campaign is to continue their “privilege” of slandering and hurting a whole group of people (its in fact their goal).
Flap
And, what shit was pulled?
Proposition 8 passed. Get over it.
Jake
“what shit was pulled”
Ohh, please. Even putting Obama’s head on a figure of Hitler was mild compared to some of the stuff I saw at the tea parties. This is surely more inflammatory than someone pointing out that they can’t get married (or, ghasp, that they actually have a state of taxation without representation … a common, and largely fake, theme at the tea parties).
“prop 8 passed, get over it”
You don’t “get over” any of your losses, and its absurd to just assume a group should give up because they were voted against ( I am sure someone like you would have told that to the African Americans, women, etc of the past. Your arguments are still no more valid, or really dissimilar in any significant way, than those that fought and even continue to fight against the “perversion” of interracial marriage [some southern states would likely still vote against it today if given the chance, BTW] )
Flap
I call BS. Post up the sh*t. I have posted up over 100 photos of the Ventura County Tea Party on another post.
So, are you saying those Tea Party protesters don’t have the right to protest because it is not gay marriage? Or why?
Proposition 8 did pass and gay marriage is not legal in California. The issue of gay marriage was debated heavily at this blog during Proposition 8.
Gay marriage is like civil rights movement of African Americans only in your own mind. Most do not accept that argument.
With regards to the pathetically underattended Prop. 8 protest, those signs were bizarre to say the least and ineffectual obviously.
Hope you bring more of “those” signs to the next gay marriage election in California. It will really help you win the election – not.
Alex
Flap, it’s interesting how you criticized the turnout for the protests in these comments but then praised the Tea Party turnouts. What were the tea party turnouts as a proportion of the total national population? Just for the sake of comparison and all that. I heard around 250k-300k total turnout was estimated, was that right?
I’m just pointing out an interesting little thing. 😉
Babsy
Dearest Alex,
You manly stud, you! Thank you so MUCH for pointing out to the conservative Flap how weak 300K taxpayers are to TRUTH! Just remember to be careful for what you wish for because you may get it. The taxpayers are becoming weary of supporting what they consider to be excess taxation and squandering of those funds for what they believe to be perversion. I’m just pointing out an interesting little thing. Have a wonderful day at the beach showing off all your manly curves and underarm hair! 😉
Flap
Alex you are comparing apples to oranges. California Proposition 8 and the protests after the measure passed was for California only. These were post election protests and were not well attended. 10 K protesters in a city of over 4 million. There were more in San Francisco and other areas but I have no figures off the top of my head since this was last November.
The Tea Party protests were not associated with any election and were nationwide. The numbers in California were as good or better than these post-election gay marriage protests by the gay marriage proponents. For example, it is estimated at over 2,500-4,000 in Ventura County alone and there were many sites throughout California.
Mark R
Flap, are you anti-homosexual or just anti-same-sex marriage? You sound like a pretty hateful dude.