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I was so happy to see Jack O’Connell speaking out against Prop 8. What a courageous man of integrity. As the heterosexual mother of 3 grown children, all straight for what that’s worth, I am relieved to see a political person who is standing up to the misguided. Why we would legislate against people loving each other I will never understand. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the definition of marriage or our schools. For shame!

Gay marriage is not about people loving each other. Its about mentally disturbed, obsessive harassers, attempting to force acceptance of their extroverted lifestyle down others throats, and vindictively punishing heterosexuals for being different. The gay lobby forced their way into public education in the other states that approved gay marriage. The same exact thing will happen here. Why on earth wouldn’t it? These harassers won’t be happy until they obtain compulsory gay sex practicums in school to force students into proving they embrace gay sex, under threat of expulsion or imprisonment. Think not? Well at least they can dream about the future can’t they ???

As a teacher in California, we are not required to instruct lessons regarding marriage. Using a sex education clause approved previously by parents in California is a weak case for stating that we teach the concept of marriage. What we do teach children is that everyone of them is equal. Utah is not too far away from California and there is plenty of room for hate in this part of the country.

TTAHK YOU, L Velasco

liar liar jack. shame on you for your hidden agenda…and for pulling teachers and schools along with you.

I am extremely disappointed by Jack O’Connell and the schools, but then again, I also hate being forced to pay for illegal aliens and their Comidas Gratis and the Dream Act. I wish this would stop immediately. It seems the school system has absolutely NO concept of right and wrong and will proudly cram that down all our throats! I myself will never, never vote to approve a school bond unless they truly the Illegal alien issue.

Furthermore, the school system should (regarding illegal aliens) BIll the nation of origin for services and rendered and for every child who speaks no English (bill every parent) of these non-English-speaking children. Why should we legal citizen taxpayers be expected to cough up all the money for this. Let the parents/guardians/custodians foot the bill for once.

I’m confused as to how so many of you on this board can be so blinded by ignorance?? Unfortunately, you’ve fallen victim to puppet status by not doing a little thing called…critical thinking. Pugno’s own letter acknowledges that laws that even touch on marriage and classroom are….VOLUNTARY…which means that schools are NOT required to touch on the subject of marriage. Crack open a Webster’s Dictionary if you need to re-educated yourself on the meaning of “voluntary”. Whether its 96% or 9.6% or .096% of schools that voluntarily broach the topic….there is still NO legal mandate for them to do so. If you don’t like that…go to your LOCAL school board….That’s why we have this wonderful system of local school districts and county boards of education…so that each community has a voice in what is taught in that particular community. Yes, I’m fair minded enough to even give you solid advice on how to intelligently and appropriately picket with your bigoted views! Moreover, understand how to critically decipher the law. The ED code also says that schools that decide to offer comprehensive health education classes must teach “respect for marriage and committed relationships”… For all those spewing at the mouth that naked lesbians and gay men are gonna start jumping out of pop-up books for children….take a moment and think about what the phrase “respect for marriage and committed relationships” means. It means teaching students that partnership is desirable, multiple sex partners probably isn’t wise, adultery is wrong, etc. It isn’t a road map to Homoville. It’s teaching some of the basic sociological principles of this country. Face the reality that you can’t wipe gay and lesbian persons off the face of the earth. We are people, parents, and citizens just like you, and, as O’Connell articulated (politically motivated or not)..using children to lie about that IS SHAMEFUL!

A group of official recommendations were recently made by California Teachers of English to include gay, lesbian and transgender readings to English classes. And we’re not talking about literature that happens to have been written by gay authors, but literature that specifically focuses on gay relationships. So, don’t even DARE to say gay marriage and acceptance of gay relationships AREN’T going to be taught, and NOT just in Health Ed classes, but in general courses like English as well. If Prop 8 isn’t passed, the only way to opt your kids out of that kind of instruction will be to take them out of public school – that is until they change things so that any kid who wants to do the equivalent of graduating from high school (from home schooling or a private school) will have to prove he or she got taught this nonsense.

Don’t be misled. This is precisely what those who oppose Prop 8 want. It’s not just about gay marriage, but with this door wide open, its all about promoting greater acceptance of the gay lifestyle generally, What’s next? Gender-neutral birth certificates? Why should babies be forced to be boys or girls. Why not just let them choose who they want to be no matter what their biology says? Give me a break!

First, Karen, it sounds like you are acknowledging that schools are not REQUIRED to teach marriage, and therefore the Yes on Prop 8 people are indeed liars when they say otherwise.

Glad we can agree on that.

Now let’s look at something in your message that simply isn’t true (according to Pugno’s own letter). You say, “Education Code section 51933 makes it clear that schools that teach ‘comprehensive sex education’ have to teach, ‘respect for marriage and committed relationships’…The only way out is to end sex education programs in all these school districts. ”

But it’s not true that the only choice is between comprehensive sex education or not at all. In fact section 51932 states, “This chapter does not apply to description or illustration of human reproductive organs that may appear in a textbook, adopted pursuant to law, on physiology, biology, zoology, general science, personal hygiene, or health.”

So you CAN teach reproductive physiology, hygiene, and health without having to provide “comprehensive” sexual education.

I’ll assume your mistake is an honest one, and not akin to the statements made by the lying proponents of Prop 8.

I think you may have missed the point. The whole point he was making was that the teaching of gay marriage and the glbt lifestyle is already out of the realm of health education and into places like English classes, which you can’t opt out of!!! What part of this do you not understand?

And sorry, Robert, it isn’t true that the only outcry comes with abstinence-only education. If teachers even bring up abstinence in class, more some parents and/or the students themselves will accuse the teacher of moralizing because they only want to hear birth control methods that will continue letting them do whatever they want to do, so not only do they NOT listen, they don’t even want it brought up and go on the offensive to stop teachers who try in an attempt to prevent even the possibility of a discussion of WHY abstinence might be a good thing morally. In otherwords, the discussion is stiffled before it even begins.

Voting “YES” on Prop 8 is the only way I know to try to bring a little sanity back into the classroom.

To Mr. Aok, Mr. Tisinai, and all others who want to discount Prop 8 due to ED Code 51240. Massachusetts (a state in the SAME country we live in ) went through the same process of legalizing same sex marriage by the same means, the state supreme court overturned an existing law and created new laws. Massachusetts currently has similar opt out laws in their ed code as compared to California but because the state recognizes same sex marriages as “normal” there is NO REASON to inform parents that this subject is being taught therefore there is no “opt out” in the eyes of the state or the law. That same scenario would happen in California since legal precedence has been set.
The newest attack on Prop 8 quotes many people in saying its discrimination not to allow same sex couples to wed, is it?!? As I stated before in 2005 state laws protected every right under the law for all domestic partnerships (homo and hetero sexual couples co-habitating), any same sex couple could create a ceremony of vows and have a wonderful reception and Prop 8 would not ever stop this nor does it want to. The last time I checked same rights and ability to pursue happiness under the laws without people stopping you is NOT discrimination. This is plain and simple an attack on society as a whole and in this season of political mantra “CHANGE” is what its all about! Change to what?? Ask the EU citizens or even better ask Canadian citizens what its like to have their societies “changed” for the so called better and tolerance.
Where do you draw the line if marriage is redefined to mean a man+man or woman+woman? Is it then to say marriage=love?? So where does that leave us? If I love a little boy down the street should I be able to marry him? Too far fetched? Ask NAMBLA, they’ll soon sue for their rights to “marriage”. What about the uproar caused in Texas, the Mormon sect who were accused of polygamy? Didn’t they also love one another? At some point certain words or rules of society exist because they are tried and true over the centuries, such as marriage. One man+ one woman create the only environment in which to populate the society but it is also a proven sociological fact that this paradigm is the one in which children become the best adjusted and thrive in the most. Same sex marriage is NOT ABOUT MARRIAGE AT ALL it is about MAKING SOCIETY AS A WHOLE ACCEPT THIS CHOICE AS NORMAL and to allow indoctrination of young children through our education system. I should know I am a parent and a public school teacher and I like the majority of teachers in California Do NOT SUPPORT PROP 8 but we are not given a chance for our voice to be heard as our top level union leaders are ultra liberal and of course homosexuals themselves. In the future I would love to see a direct vote on PAC $$ spent by CTA instead of some back room agreement or board decision as I was NEVER asked what my vote would be on this issue. That is why I have recently took the steps to “opt out” my PAC funds and have them donated to charity instead.

You’re right! The backers of the effort to stop Prop 8, like several of our state legislators, have been working for a very long time to try to force the gay agenda into our public schools. The Supreme Court’s decision to allow gay marriage until this vote tomorrow just made it easier for them to justify it even further because gay marriage is now state law That’s not a lie. It was their precise strategy. It’s why they didn’t bother to get their own petition effort going to get gay marriage on the ballot themselves. They knew the people of this state wouldn’t approve it, so they went to the courts and convinced a few judges to back them. Besides that, the English curriculum recommendations I mentioned I thought were supposedly going into effect in 2009, so that’s wouldn’t be history. This was intentional! This is precisely how it worked in Massachusetts. Once the law is changed, new state curriculum guidelines have to comply with the law. And that’s precisely what will happen if we don’t pass Prop 8. The truth is that it has already begun. We’ve already had young kids being given ‘ally’ cards saying they’d be ‘allies’ of people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender. And these were kindergarteners, little kids too young to fully understand what those terms meant. You may not like this line of reasoning, but it’s real whether you like it or not.

Hmm . . . Teaching about gay marriage isn’t required? That’s like saying you’re not required to have a drivers license in California. Well, only if you want to drive. So, I guess by that logic, the fact that gay marriage will be taught in 96% of public schools isn’t exactly a ‘requirement.’ I mean, you don’t have to send your kids to public school, nor do you really have to drive here to get to work or the grocery store.

O’Connell’s lie was one of omission, not necessarily commission. It’s not what he said, but what he DIDN’T say that was misleading enough to be called a lie. He didn’t even mention that 96% of schools DO teach about marriage and would have to teach about gay marriage because it’s now state law – until tomorrow That was intentionally deceptive. That would make his statement that schools ‘aren’t required to teach marriage’ register on a lie detector as a lie because it was an intentional deception. Think of ‘voluntary’ the way you can ‘volunteer’ for something your CO ‘asks’ you to do in the Army rather than being ordered to do it. They may call it ‘voluntary’ but it really isn’t when your funding and pretty much everything else about how you run your schools depends on your meeting state guidelines.

You’re absolutely right Robert there isn’t a law that says schools must teach about marriage but if YOU look and listen to not only what has happened in Massachusetts in the past 5 years and what has already begun happening in other states including California in regards to the homosexual lifestyle and especially marriage I think any rational person will deduct the same thing…if a school would want to teach it or even an individual teacher in their own classroom by legal precedent they WOULD NOT have to inform any parent what they were doing EVEN if the parent OPTED OUT their child for such teaching. Have a great day Mr. Tininai and you’re right again about bearing false witness but the 1st and most important commandment (LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD) because if you do that then all other things will take of themselves.

To pj gildernew: it doesn’t sound like you understand how the law works. ED Code 51938 says that schools must notify parents about a comprehensive sexual health education program. If (as a parent) you don’t want your child to receive this instruction (because you think it might cover gay marriage, etc.)…you may opt out. Its really not that complicated. Furthermore, stop this whining about marriage and tried and true sociological blah blah. Not that I don’t believe that a committed partnership is the best place for a child. But, if you really believed that, you’d be out throwing your passion behind making divorce illegal in this country.

What part do we not understand? Here goes:

1. The English guidelines you talk about were decided on before the Court decision. Even if they won’t be implemented until 2009, they are not the result of the court case.

2. Therefore, the Court decision — and Prop 8 — have nothing to do with these guidelines that bother you so much.

3. So why are you talking about them as if they were relevant to Prop 8?

That’s what we don’t understand. Please explain.

Anyway, it’s interesting that you’re abandoning the reasoning in Pugno’s letter and moving on to new arguments.